Out of Faith

Fanfiction
Title:	Out of Faith
Author(s):	glacis
Date(s):
Length:
Genre(s):	slash?
Fandom(s):	The Professionals
Relationship(s):
External Links:	online here and here
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Out of Faith is a Professionals fusion with the song by Natalie Imbruglia ('Torn.') story by glacis.

Reactions and Reviews

In 2012, this story generated many, many long responses from fans at CI5hq. Some are below. See for more, ^{Archived version}.

On my first reading of this story I was left thinking Why? Why would this be written, what is it trying to do for the reader? I want to say that's changed on further analysis, but I don't think it really has... It might be a gritty and realistic reaction to something so awful happening (and I'm all for gritty and realistic) but on the other hand there's generally a sense of redemption even in gritty and realistic stories - at least a sense that although there are sometimes failures, people will continue to try, won't let the terrible things beat them. The lads are furious at the end of Takeaway, when the villains get away with what they've been doing through their diplomatic immunity - but we see them the week after, still fighting to make things right. They haven't given up. Out of Faith, on the other hand, seems to be a story about giving up. There's no redemption (even though Doyle finds "peace" in death, he's only dead because of the story), not even for Bodie at the end. If there'd been a sense that his life would change for the better after this, that he might open himself to love in order to save other lives, then it might all have been worth it - but I don't get that impression, it seems that he'll just go on - in which case such terrible things could repeat themselves ad infinitum...

Well, that's what I reckon, anyway... *g* Interesting, it is, interpreting things between song and story - but I wonder if other people have interpreted things differently (especially, perhaps, with the song?)... Following recent traditions - some questions for you! Feel free to choose rather than answer them all, if you'd rather!

1) Do you agree/disagree with the interpretations I've made about song and story? 2) What do you think of Bodie's character - does he match the song? Does it ring true to our ep-Bodie? Can you see him rejecting Doyle like that? 3) Can you see Doyle committing suicide as a result? 4) What do you think Bodie's "impulses" are? What do you think that section refers to?

5) Did you leave the story feeling rather empty as well, or can you see something more in it than I can?

Even in fusion stories, I want to be able to see the men I see Bodie and Doyle to be. I didn't at all in this one. I remember my distaste the first time I read this story. It's still there. Though well written, I found it to be a complete downer, with both Bodie and Doyle as weak men running from what they can't face. It's terrible what's done to Doyle and I suppose Bodie's experiences were almost or as bad, yet, well, too much of what I enjoy about Pros is the fact that Bodie and Doyle do rise above their circumstances. And, as you say, Doyle's death serves no real purpose, other than to make him dead. I didn't realize at the time that it was a fusion story, but, still, it's not something I could ever enjoy.

Well, you've managed to make a story I dislike into something interesting through your analysis. See, this is the power of story discussion.*g* It still doesn't work for me as a Pros story--I cannot see Bodie or Doyle behaving in this manner, in these circumstances. And I think that's actually the danger and challenge of fusion stories. By placing these characters into the shoes of those characters...how do you stay true to the original? Is there an essence of "Bodie" and "Doyle" that rings true for Pros audience? I believe that is possible. In this case, for me, it didn't work. I think your analysis of the song, and the interpretation through the story is interesting and makes, actually, for a decent story. But as a Pros story, it fails for me. Not because of the bleak ending--I can and do read death stories, etc.--but because, for me, there was nothing of the deep and abiding relationship between Bodie and Doyle here--the strength, actually, that should see them through this. Perhaps if the story had dealt with the strength of the relationship we see on screen--had shown how that could be so completely destroyed... I wasn't convinced that the events in the story would cause that relationship to fail so spectacularly, or that Bodie and Doyle (the men we see on scree) would act or feel in this way. I think I could be convinced of that, but I'd need more than we were given in the story. (And, admittedly, I would hate the entire thing. *g*) At any rate, it felt to me as if the relationship and characters we see on screen were subsumed by the need to tell the song's story. Frankly, it could have been any two men from any TV show, in some ways--the song took over the characters. So...for me, it wasn't a successful fusion, but I'll agree it was an interesting story.*g*

I've been thinking about this some more and realized that part of my frustration with the story has to do with the nature of fan fiction itself. For me, part of the purpose of fan fiction is to comment on, illuminate, and perhaps transform the original. In fusion stories that process should happen with both sources. But here...the song really is merely interpreted, isn't it? And I wanted some transformation--how do these two sources interact with one another? What is it about Bodie and Doyle, and their relationship, that would alter the song? Just as the song's premise alters the universe of Bodie and Doyle.

Like you, I would lean towards redemption at the least, and actual rescue/change at the end at best. Because it seems to me that the narrator of the song is damaged, alone and forsaken (but still raging, as you point out). So, too, is Doyle. But for me, Doyle will always have Bodie, and vice versa. I like the idea that Bodie almost can't overcome his past in order to "save" Doyle, but to have him be so cold and closed off to Doyle, with no developed explanation... That would argue that the writer was commenting on Bodie and Doyle's relationship in canon to say that it isn't more than surface attraction/connection, at least for Bodie. It can't overcome his past; it isn't strong enough for that. For Doyle, it destroys him as he is forsaken, and alone, and unable then to rescue himself. That's a really bleak comment on what we see in the show. But fair enough. Only it wasn't convincing--we weren't shown enough motivation to overcome what we see on the show. (And, yes, that's where they weren't "Bodie" and "Doyle" for me, but simply two men slotted into an interpretation of the song. ) The song was merely a vehicle or framework, and not transformed or commented on, or even altered at all by being placed in the Pros universe. But I would expect this song to play out different in Pros than in, say, Torchwood. You know? There should be some influence.

Like you, I actually really like the song, but I see defiance and rage in it, not giving up. And since that not-giving-up aspect is an attractive quality for me that I see in Doyle...I really, really reacted negatively to the ending of the story. It simply didn't make sense for me that Bodie and Doyle would act as they did. It felt forced--like they had to do that in order to "be like" the song. But that's the whole point: the source (song) can be transformed. It wasn't. And so the story left me flat.

Before I start, let me say I hated it. It isn't often a story evokes such a strong negative feeling, perhaps because I usually read blurbs for original fic and warnings for fanfic. But the warnings for this didn't give any indication of what the story was about to do.

I listened to, and was depressed by, the song. I can see the way the fusion works and suppose it's clever. There's some good writing there and perhaps this story in 'lesser' hands would merely be dismissed as 'bad' but here we have to admire some aspects. It's a very powerful piece of writing which I suppose is why it generates such strong feelings! I didn't find the song nearly as powerful and in fact switched off before the end.

I didn't find much of the character of 'my' Bodie or Doyle here. I respect writers' different interpretations, of course, but I think these were 'far out' in terms of what most people who have seen the show would agree about. B and D are far stronger (mentally) than the author portrays them here and I can't see Bodie making that kind of rejection of his partner without at least an attempt to explain, however clumsily. Nor can I see Doyle committing suicide for any reason without a very long lead-up and far more than a single rejection to motivate him. I also disliked and found out of character the implication that Kendall somehow didn't matter either to them or to Cowley.

I am not easily 'squicked' and I have quite a wide comfort zone. I read death fic and strong violence quite often, in both fanfic and original fic - though I do like to know roughly what's coming because sometimes I'm in the mood for dark stories and sometimes I'm not. However, I have issues with stories (again, original or fanfic) which linger lovingly over details of sexually based torture, even when (as in e.g Legend of the Seeker) the outcome is better than it is here. I find it offensive in much the same way as I would find rape-for-titillation offensive, which is not, by the way, to suggest that it should be censored, just that I wish to be able to avoid reading about it. I am happy to read stories that refer to rape and sexual torture in order to reach some other level, e.g. hurt/comfort. I am also happy, or at least prepared to read them if they are based in historical fact and will add to my knowledge of the world or of the human psyche. I am even 'happy' to read tragedy if the purpose is simply to explore, however briefly, the tragedy and its effects on individuals, a group or society at large. I am never happy with any concentration on gratuitous descriptions of torture; it somehow suggests that either the author is 'turned on' by pain or wants to enjoy his/her readers' reactions to it.

I avoid or stop reading original fic where this focus on the details of torture offends me. I avoid fandoms/comms/writers where this kind of writing appears to be prevalent. I was really 'shocked' and felt physically sick when I read this story but was also interested in the discussion that would ensue. The shock was in the way the torture was depicted - graphic description without any real exploration of either Doyle or his torturer. I wasn't shocked by the suicide, just depressed and annoyed that the characterisation was not sufficiently developed to make it 'real'.

So no, not empty; sick and near-angry. I have no idea, like you, why this was written. There are all kinds of possibilities - the author could have had some kind of life experience that made the song very important to her and wanted to use fanfic as a kind of metaphor for her feelings. She could have been responding to too many hurt/comfort fics where recovery from rape/torture seems too easy. I'm sure you'll all come up with other theories.

Weirdly I didn't hate this story. And, maybe just as weirdly, I think that's where this fic failed for me! I mean - I really SHOULD hate this fic. I don't tend to read character death, and I'm squeamish, so the thought of a story that's all graphic hurt with no comfort at the end to balance it out...I should really dislike this story. And I don't.

I guess part of it is that Bodie and Doyle aren't especially there, for me. Like, I think her Bodie and Doyle are...serviceable. You made a list of traits that this writers' Bodie and Doyle have that jibe with how you see Bodie and Doyle, and I can see that too. But her Bodie and Doyle aren't exactly leaping off the screen with white-hot intensity for me either. You know those little twists of characterisation that some writers have that make Bodie and Doyle real for you? I know that's a personal thing - but it's just not here for me. And there's nothing I can especially point to and say, "THIS is not-Doyle/not-Bodie!" but it's like her characters are Doyle and Bodie in general...but not in specific.

And that's a good thing and a bad thing for me. It's bad because I should be GUTTED by the end of this story. I don't make a habit of reading character-death or they-don't-get-together fics because if they're done right, they should convince me. I wouldn't WANT to be convinced of the 'rightness' of a Doyle who is so traumatised that he takes his own life at the end of the story, and a Bodie who is so messed up that he rejects Doyle in his hour of need...but I SHOULD be convinced of it all the same.

...but of course, it's good because I didn't WANT to be gutted and convinced of the unsalvage-ability of Bodie and Doyle's situation! :)

Maybe part of it was that the torture etc. was too much? Or - like the characterisation - not specific enough? I mean, specific to character, not specific as in detailed, because lack of detail would not be one of my complaints about this story! :) Like the beatings, the rape, the rejection...they're all just this big pile on of hurt with no character-specific payoff. Even in terms of 'breaking Doyle down/making him suicidal' 'payoff', it doesn't feel especially like I'm watching the breakdown of this specific character, just the breakdown of a character in general. It made all that gruesome stuff easy to skim, because it could just as easily be happening to a character from any number of other fandoms.

I did find the opening really compelling, though - the bit with the hand! It was horrible - but really well done, I thought - because it was so CI5 specific - the gross bloody box, the newspaper soaked with blood, the technicians, who were going to have to fingerprint it...

THAT image is going to stay with me! :) Horrifying, in a creepy, fascinating way. I felt really 'present' for that bit!

I never ever would have guessed this was a fusion based on 'Torn' - but music is very specific to the listener, so... Bodie didn't especially match the song guy for me (very literal, me - I just keep thinking of the dude in the Natalie Imbruglia music video and trying to superimpose Bodie into the video instead!).

Comments from the Author

This is really interesting - y'all went much deeper into the story than I did! I'm not sure I'd call it a fusion - the song inspired a scene, which inspired the story, but I wasn't thinking of interpreting the song directly into the story (though it looks like it crept in anyway, going by the discussion - what a great discussion). One question - did anyone else think Bodie committed suicide with the razor he was holding? I did. It's always fascinating to see readers' reactions - I've often thought that the one who brings meaning to the story is the reader, not the writer. Personally, the story gives me the willies, but had to write it to get it out of my head. None of my other Pros stories are like this one. But the image of a Doyle, and later a Bodie, driven beyond mending, was one I had to address. The comment about shame being an element in the sexual torture was exactly what I intended, because the inability to bridge that shame is what broke them both. The only thing I read (and wrote) in the fandom was the Lads staying together no matter what - this may have been a reaction to that, though it wasn't conscious. Some things, I think, nobody can come back from.

"Out of Faith was an anomaly for me. I hate death stories, hate sad endings, don't like reading tragedy, and hate stories based on song lyrics. One would think I would never write something that fit all those categories! But one afternoon I was listening to Natalie Imbruglia's then-new CD, and heard Torn. I hit replay and sat, as the room slowly got dark, for most of a rainy afternoon, listening to it over and over (I'm occasionally obsessive like that). At the time, I was writing in Sentinel and Pros, and for some reason, I couldn't get the image of Doyle and Bodie out of my head as I listened to the lyrics.

So I wrote Out of Faith. I edited it, proofread it, posted it, and never read it again, because it was too depressing for me to read. (yes, I'm laughing at myself, but it's still true)

At that same time, I finished a Sentinel story called Polarity. I posted Out of Faith to my Pros ficlist, with what I thought were appropriate warnings, then posted Polarity to my Sentinel ficlist, also with what I thought were appropriate warnings. Both lists had minor convulsions; Pros because I had underwarned (apparently, they thought the warning for 'Major Character Death' was for the OC I'd killed off early, instead of an actual major character) and Sentinel because I'd overwarned (Blair was an underaged prostitute). I was bemused by it all, because I thought it would be the other way around, if anything.

Out of Faith, itself, was a tone piece, an unusual one for me, but still, simply an urge to write a specific scene (in this case, the one where Bodie turns away from Doyle in the bath). The rest of the story was to explain that one scene, and I could see no way for the characters, in that set-up, to recover. Bodie and Doyle, Doyle and Bodie, the mobile ghetto, had only one another to lean on, and if that was taken away, they would both fall.

It wasn't written in response to what was going on in fandom at the time, because I have seldom written in response to fannish opinion or discussion. I can't write that way. My brain is fired up by images, usually primed by something in an episode, by events in the news that fit characters I like, by the way an actor inhabits a character, or (in this case) by a particularly haunting song that opens up possibilities I otherwise would never consider. It was written because I had to get it out of my head, then posted on my Pros ficlist because it was finished, and it was part of my contribution to list life - at the time (and now) my stories go first to my own archive, then to whatever fan list / LJ / archive would like them.

It also wasn't meant to be a realism piece (that would be something like Adversaries). If anything, it was more fantasy than most, because I actually couldn't see the partners breaking like that. But the scene wanted to be written, and the story wouldn't leave me alone, so there it was.

People write for all sorts of reasons. I usually write not to exorcise demons, nor make points about society, nor engage in fannish debate, but because there's a scene my mind sees that no one else has written yet, and I have to write it or it will gnaw my brain to distraction. Stories then grow around those pesky scenes until they're finished and I can put them away and go on to the next scene/story.

I seldom read extensively in fandoms I'm writing, because if I'm reading it, I'm not writing it, so I can't remember a time when anything I've written was a reflection or rejection of other stories. Some themes may mirror others, but I think that has more to do with common perceptions about characters among fan writers than stories influencing one another.

From what I can recall, there was a strong reaction to Out of Faith when I posted it. Some people acted like I'd somehow tricked them into reading it (the above-mentioned 'under'-rating - I think my response was along the lines of 'please tell me you're kidding'). Others were surprised at the aspects I never write (death, song lyrics implied, generally bleak, as you mention). I didn't pay much attention to the discussion because, honestly, for me, the story was over, and I was on to the next story idea. I was a little surprised at some of the intensity of the response, but not that it had gotten a reaction; it was out of character for my writing, so I expected some confusion. Heck, it confused me."

Interesting, isn't it - all the reasons people write, and the things we see in stories, and... *g*