Late for Breakfast/Issues 26-27
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Late for Breakfast is a multi-fandom letterzine. There were 31 issues published between 1989 and 1997.
Issue 26
Late for Breakfast 26 was edited by Carla S. with the help of Cushy Butterfield. It is undated, but appears to have been published in September 1995 and contains 40 pages.
- a review of the pro book "Enlisted Meat: True Homosexual Military Stories V.1"
- a review of the pro book "Ghost Kisses"
- a review of the pro book "The A-Z of Quantum Leap"
- a review of the Japanese movie "Night Head"
- a review of Beloved Adversary, see that page
- "Stop Press," a fan's concern about distribution of the zine Waiting to Fall
- a reprint (from "TV Zone Issue 64") of a review of the pro book The Fate of the Phoenix, see that page
[Carla, the editor]:
I said I would give an indication of where LfB subscribers stayed - if there is someone you want to get in touch with just send me letters in a sealed envelope telling me the destinations and I'll send them on - if they want to get in touch with you they can respond directly. There are 7 from the Pacific areas - 2 from Japan, 3 from New South Wales, 1 from South Australia and 1 from Victoria in Australia. We have 5 European subscribers - 1 from France and 4 from Germany. Six subscribers are from the USA, 3 from California and one each from Nebraska, New Mexico and Massachusetts. The bulk of the subscribers, 42, are from Britain with 4 in Northern Ireland and another 4 (excluding myself) in Scotland. In England there are 5 in London, 4 in Essex, Tyne and Wear and Dorset, two in Surrey, Merseyside and Warwickshire and one each in Manchester, Wolverhampton, Leicester, Wiltshire, Norfolk, Oxfordshire, Berkshire, East Sussex, Northamptonshire, Nottingham and Kent.
[Carla, the editor]:
Thanks also for the info on the War of the Worlds convention and newsletter. As you know I have joined the newsletter and am going to the convention.... if it is still going ahead as I still haven't heard anything. It's a pity that WoWfandom seems to be having the same internal squabbles as so many fandoms before - don't we ever learn from previous experience? I seem to have gone through this with almost every fandom I've encountered, or heard about serious rifts in the past if I came in very late to a fandom where there were only a few people left. Despite IDIC and everything else fans talk about, many seem to think if you don't see things their way then you are not a real fan. Personally I don't mind how other people see shows I like. I'm interested in listening to their views on characterisation etc but at the end of the day I have my own view of the show.
[Carla, the editor]:
I think making our heroes bisexual is almost a wish fulfillment just as the happy ending stories they always have is. Because we read slash and read gay books, I suspect most of us have thought about sexuality in general and our own in particular, far more than the average person. While most of us are heterosexual I'd guess that quite a few have either had or considered a sexual experience with the same sex since being involved in fandom. W e write and read stories where the heroes were previously heterosexual but where their sexual partners were not permanent or were killed and where they find the (almost) perfect sexual partner in their existing emotional partner - the person who understands perfectly the job they do, the stress they face etc and who can cope with them in any conceivable mood. Wouldn't you like someone like that in real life and if that was the case would it matter what sex they were? Problem is few of us ever find that perfect partner and while we are looking don't want any more stress added to our lives by picking someone many in society will condemn.
[Mashuma]:
Oh yes. You really hit my pet peeve with porn videos as well. Why is it always the men who are icky? Actually, I know the answer. Ordinary pot-bellied guys watch those videos and figure that they too can get the 'babes'.
[Mashuma]:
Note to contribute to everyone's knowledge: various APAs and zines have been running off and on a discussion of what it is about characters that leads one to become a 'top' in fanzines and the other to become primarily a 'bottom'. Much has been made of ideas such as hair colour. However, the definitive answer has come (at least for Japan). My friend and her male co-workers got into a discussion the other week on this topic and after analysing all the Japanese slash pairings that they knew of (an awful lot) realised that the one determining factor is not character, age, background, or anything like that. It is simply HEIGHT. In Japanese slash, the top is always the taller of the pair. End of mystery.
[Mashuma]:
Re slash being read in the gay community. Was it ever a common read that the community had something to stop? Even here [in Japan], the gays I have seen slash introduced to, including Japanese gays, are quite astounded that such a thing exists. This, in spite of the fact that slash is very popular and well known compared to in England or the States. The subcultures mostly do not seem to come in contact often. One westerner I know has decided he does not particularly like slash, but that is not because it offends him in any way, but that it is not pornographic enough for him, not because it does not reflect 'gay life'. Doesn't the 'gay community' referred to before need escapist fiction?
[Mashuma]:
The Paul Darrow story was interesting. I had not heard this story at all before. I was already in Japan when the B7 blowup happened and have been hearing rumours and bits for years. I am glad to know that he lost the case, however. It does not appear to be like that when the fandom creator is angry, and may not be when someone with the rights to the show object. Here, fan work is considered a compliment to the show and any sales fan work gets are seen as negligible as compared to the value the free publicity gives the 'official' work. In the States, though, in Japanese animation fandom, the new rights holders are trying to destroy the fandom that helped them make their first inroads into the American market. They have gone after fan translators and subtitlers (who are not competing with them as they mostly do works that are not being commercially released in the States and do not sell their work). They have also started going after fan artists. I am worried.
[Mashuma]:
I rather prefer that authors not indicate who they have modelled a character on, but I think that is a personal peeve. I like my original characters to be original and my media ones to be themselves and am not fond of having Bodie and Doyle crop up in the middle of my B7 in thinly disguised forms. If I don't recognise them, fine.
[Mashuma]:
Oh dear - I wish I had not read your update on the B7 pregnancy stories - I think I just bought that zine.
[Tarlan]:
I read a wonderful Alien Nation slash story called Bonded Reality which put Marvin (from the sardinac episode) and Matt Sykes together. On the whole, though, I must admit to liking the Matt and Cathy relationship. However, I don't agree that X-Files would be spoilt by Mulder being slashed but, as with all fandoms (and characters!), it does depend on the circumstances and on the quality of the story.
[Tarlan]:
I cannot see the point of fandom awards especially ones restricted to only Britain. I do understand the problem that the British zines do not have the same wide circulation as the American zines and, hence, rarely gain a vote at Mediawest. However, there are not that many British slash zine publishers so it sounds as though the voting could become a little incestuous. I also agree that it is difficult to tell a writer's nationality except for the odd spelling and phraseology but even this can be rectified by spell-checkers and by the broad influence of American TV on the writer. I wonder if there is a better way of promoting British slash. Anyone have any thoughts on this?
[Tarlan]:
With 2 books already published it looks as though JMS has decided to allow Babylon 5 to jump on the merchandise bandwagon after all. I've only managed to get hold of Voices so far. It starts off well but then plummets once the action moves off of the station. On the whole - not bad but could have been better. Despite this, I can't wait to get my grubby mitts on the next book.
[Tarlan]:
I am a sucker for stories with more to them than one long, very descriptive sex scene. Like DRAGON, I do want to know what is going on in their heads - all that angst! I also like the story to have a plot. There has to be a reason why two, outwardly straight characters suddenly tumble into bed with each other. I do agree with CARLA that it all depends on the writer. I have read stories that are just sex and they have bored me to tears yet I have been totally frustrated by other stories that are filled with 'waves crashing against the shore' in the place of a sex scene. Unlike BAGHEERA a hot sex scene is not essential but, when combined with good characterisation and a decent plot, these stories are among the most memorable and the most enjoyable.
[Tarlan]:
Pleased to see there are several others who saw some possibility in Kimble/Gerard. I have just finished reading the film tie-in novel by JM Dillard and feel even stronger about the possibility - it has some very interesting glimpses into Gerard's mind and character that could not be so easily portrayed on the screen. If Ellis Ward has her The Fugitive story published then please let me know!! I would be very interested in reading it.
[Bagheera]:
I don't have any favourite straight fandoms. I must have a sex scene in a story to feel I'm getting value for money. That's not to say I don't appreciate stories that are 'well-written, entertaining and with good characterisation', but why can't they have a sex scene too? Certainly longer stories I feel definitely need one, whereas shorter stories can be fine with just some erotic talk or thinking between characters.
[Bagheera]:
I read in a US letterzine that there was a recent Trek convention attended by Kate Mulgrew (the new female captain in the Voyager series) - she was very wary of answering questions that could involve her in any kind of conflict, and was quite floored and non-committal in answer when questioned as to if or when Trek would be addressing gay/lesbian issues. But, though disappointed with her response, the writer of the con review was appalled at the reaction to the question by the other attendees - boos, hisses, catcalls. Hardly an example of IDIC. Actually, personally, I think the new generation of Trekkers wouldn't know the meaning of IDIC - it seemed to die with Classic Trek, and they wouldn't know what the letters stand for.
[Bagheera]:
You mentioned the difficulty of getting A/B slash. Well, that's all the US presses seem to print. And I just can't see A/B, except in music videos where the scenes are taken out of concept. I agree there was a strong connection between A+B, but it was one of friction, and I really don't think there would ever be a comfortable relationship whereas I felt Avon and Vila were of like characteristics as regards their criminal outlook etc, and there was a respect for each other's skills, and an underlying feeling of friendship - certainly they weren't competing against each other and I find stories of A/V much nicer than A/B which contain a lot of violence and quite often edges into S/M, or are simply unhappy endings. As an A/B fan you'd probably like a filksong I heard years ago called Reflections of Me it's from Avon's POV and full of emotion and describes their story linkage. Was it in the series or a fan story that Avon says he always felt their deaths were linked? Anyway, I love the song (words and tune) but can't see the sexual side of A/B.
[Bagheera]:
I think if you took a poll that most readers would say there doesn't have to be explicit sex in a story - at least that's what I've heard quite a lot. Sometimes though I think people are giving answers they feel they should give, as you sometimes get the impression that to only enjoy a zine when it has sex is a minor crime and shows a reader's lack of perception of fine writing etc. I read for enjoyment - that's why I like happy endings,
not too much angst during, and lots of sex. I don't castigate anyone for liking non-sex stories like the Larton series (which I didn't like at all), and I see no reason for anyone to feel superior for preferring zines without explicit sex. I'm not talking about you, but I just get the impression that sometimes to admit to liking raunchy sex is regarded as a perversion.
[Dragon]:
people who make music videos have my admiration. Must take them ages to fit the music to the clips. I think I'll stick to making up song tapes. I do prefer to use singers/groups that no one has heard of so that the songs are fresh and the listener doesn't associate them with something else.
[Dragon]:
Thank you for the information on the Gareth Thomas/Paul Darrow feud. It confirmed a little of what I already knew and cleared up a few points.
[Dragon]:
My personal niggle is one I've mentioned before. I like the characters I'm reading about to bear more than a vague relation to those in the TV series. This can cover making one of the pair a real drip who would faint at the sight of a dormouse unless his partner was there to protect him, to making one or both of them emotionally cold. I am quite happy for a writer to explore the character they're writing about and maybe create aspects of that character that aren't seen on the screen, but once I lose my belief that this is the person that I have come to know over weeks of watching them gallivant around on TV, then I'm likely to put the story down and turn to something else. Saying this, sometimes a writer can change the character and I will enjoy it simply because they happen to hit on something I like. I can't see Bodie as pathologically obsessed with Doyle in the normal course of events, but I don't mind reading that because the theme appeals. If the characters are written correctly though I know I will enjoy the story because these are the people that I like and want to read about, no matter what the plot surrounding them happens to be.
[Ferret]:
I think JMS wasn't so much telling people not to write stories, but just not to post them on the Internet. Since he reads a lot of what people write on the net, he could be held liable for anything that ends up on the show that was previously written by a fan. Anything that is privately circulated by you, or any other writers shouldn't cause any trouble.
[Ferret]:
Our Beverly Hills 90210 photo story has had to take a back seat, because no photocopying shop will accept it. I wonder why? Maybe it's the little plastacine penises we used (that kept dropping off in passionate moments - sigh). I have no idea if there is anything written on the show, and as I've never seen an episode in my life (I just liked the dollies) and only have one friend who does watch it and she's not heavy into slash fandom so it's unlikely I could track it down for you. If we can get this story up and running (maybe when I've purchased my own photocopier - like, when I win lottery) I'll send you a copy gratis.
[Ferret]:
I've had a look at some Blake's 7 Internet addresses, but one thing I've noticed is that a lot of them are very anti slash. I've not actually put a message on this list, just had a brief look through (I'm pretty ignorant of the net yet), but it seems that people are all but crucified for mentioning slash issues.
[Ferret]:
The Blake's 7 story you describe, Avon having a baby, sounds appalling. I gotta get this one!
[Ferret]:
Yeah, a bit of dominance can be quite exciting in a story. An author using the (pen?) name JS Barton is writing a very good series of Bondage and Discipline Bodie and Doyle stories (B&D B/D) that are being privately circulated now. If anyone is interested, I don't mind copying these. (To be honest, I've not read the entire series, but enough to see that it's a fair bit of spanking and leather type stuff). Another fairly heavy story is Bound to Please by Shawne Gedge. An American author selling through NutHatch Creative in South Australia. What I read of this zine was pretty strong stuff. Nothing unconsenting, but again, very kinky! Highly recommended for the jaded reader!
[Ferret]:
Personally, having been reading slash since the age of nine, I'm very jaded. There are few slash stories that I have read recently, that, if they don't have some hot sex in them, hold my interest. Otherwise, they are just gen, and they would need one hell of a plot to be worthwhile. The occasional relationship zine is okay, but otherwise, I want them in there, trousers down, and blow for blow! None of this behind closed doors cop-out!
[Judith]:
I hope that the world is broad-minded enough to accept me as I am. I know some of it isn't - I already regret the loss of one friend in fandom. However, during my year as a self-confessed slash writer, I've been fortunate enough to find many people outside the slash community who have a happy live- and-let-live attitude. I know that not all slash fans are so lucky. I guess I'm fortunate in my friends.
[Judith]:
I love Servalan, and for me, a powerful Avon/Servalan story would work as well as a strong Blake/Avon one. The only trouble is that I have yet to see a good Avon/Servalan story. All the elements are there, and in fact they are the same elements that make A/B work so well. Two strong characters, power struggles, a forbidden element to the romance, mutual sexual attraction, mutual respect, etc. So why is A/S so rarely done, and never done well?
[Judith]:
I'd rather see your real name and address, [Edgie]. Not so much because I want to know you, but because I'm wondering if I already know you. You quoted the address for the B7 Internet list. I post there quite regularly. Now, I'm wondering if you are one of the other regular posters. I know at least one gay man on the list. The same goes for other people here. How many of us already friends without realising it?
[Judith]:
Do we see vulnerabilities that the writers never intended? Possibly. It's certainly true to say that we take what we're given on screen and develop it to the fullest possible extent. Avon in fanfic would never be the same if we hadn't had Rumours of Death, Terminal and Blake. Three episodes out of fifty-two, but they give us firstly the knowledge that when he does love, he gives everything, and secondly, the knowledge of who the single most important person in his universe is. 3/52, but probably 50% of slash stories play on his vulnerabilities. That's what we tend to like as readers - emotional impact.
he more stoic a character tends to be - the more fun there is when the dam breaks. I think that is why people often make Avon rather Spockish. His strong sense of humour, frequent smiles, and propensity for touching people (especially in the first two seasons) rarely come over in slash. People want to make him more isolated, because there is then more impact in putting him in an emotional situation. Half the popularity of Post Gauda Prime stories is probably because we can start with poor Avon in a totally gut-wrenching situation. I like writing PGPs myself, and that's undoubtedly one of the reasons. Having just murdered your best friend/lover is a great point to begin a story. What I tend to dislike is where another character is distorted in order to provide a convenient shoulder for our long-suffering hero to cry on. Vila becomes a door-mat. Blake becomes a cuddly sympathetic teddy bear (and incredibly forgiving about being shot by a certain psycho in black leather...). Jenna listens sympathetically when Blake tells her his Avon problems (that's about the worst, as Jenna quite obviously wants Blake herself). I like my sympathy to be offered by someone who still feels like the characters I know.
[Judith]:
It would seem sad if you felt a need to warn readers of stories without sex. I can see the rationale, but what defines a sex scene? It's potentially a very grey area. Being naked? Kissing? Caressing? Jerking each other off? How about if someone is only thinking about sex - does fantasising count?
[Judith]:
Should writers include a photo of the character for people who are unfamiliar with the series? It's a tricky one in some ways. Some of our favourite characters (as Pros and B7 fans will well know) were played by actors who have very strong feelings where slash is concerned. Somehow, I feel much happier writing about characters, than I do publishing pictures. The line between character and actor is far more blurred where pictures are concerned. Having said that, I'll go a long way for a good Suzan Lovett picture - I'm only human.
[Judith]:
To me, the most obvious slash pairing in Babylon 5 has to be Talia/lvanova. Now she is separated from psi-corps, the only hope she has of sex with someone who is used to sharing their mind, is Ivanova. The two of them are developing a common understanding, and there's a strong emotional link building. Who knows what actually happened the night Talia went to see Ivanova after she broke with psi-corps...
[Judith]:
I've got some very good B7 music videos, the only catch is that they are in NTSC format (I have a duel format TV set) Now if you want to see The Masochism Tanpo set to B7 (hilarious), or Maids When You're Young Never Wed An Old Man Servalan + Egrorian + Krantor and Avon (of course) for the last verse, then you'll have to pay a visit to Dorset. I've got plenty of others too. A US friend traded me copies of loads of Mary van Deusen's songvids - they are very good.
[Judith]:
I've never written a slash story around a gay man, but then I've never been hooked on a series that had a gay central character. In fact I've yet to see a series with a gay central character. I can see what you mean about the subtext though. If the characters are gay, then there is an obvious reason for an attraction. Half the fun of slash is the non sexual attractions that eventually develop (to the character's surprise) into a sexual attraction. There's more scope for complex motives. Mind you, you can get complex factors in any relationship, straight or gay.
[Judith]:
You're totally right about Paul Darrow hating slash, although these days I think he tends to ignore it, and just requests people not to send it to him or to ask him to autograph it. (I think the Paul/Gareth story was probably apocryphal - everyone's heard of it, no-one's ever read it.) I can understand his objections to pictures though. It must be quite a shock to open a zine and find explicit artwork of yourself with another man. The situation with Gareth and Paul wasn't quite as simple a you describe. But then nothing ever is. I only know parts of the story, but I've heard them from several different angles. There was right and wrong on both sides, and it wasn't all to do with slash. I'm just glad it's all long over. I think both Paul and Gareth are wonderful. Paul does do conventions now - he'd have been at Britannicon if work commitments hadn't cropped up at the last minute and he did Visions last year. Gareth did one in Australia earlier this year, which apparently went well. They are friends again now - they did some radio work together earlier this year.
[Judith]:
Funny thing, I've watched a couple of episodes [of The Professionals] and didn't care much for them at all, but I have read a couple of slash stories that I like. From what I'm told, this may not be untypical. People like the characters, but not the setting. Certainly, speaking for myself, car chases bore me to tears. Maybe I need to watch a few more episodes and see if I like them any better.
[Morticia]:
No, I don't think that explicit sex has to be in a slash story by hook or by crook! If the feelings are there, it's slash for me Besides, reading the umpteenth sex-scene can get a bit tedious, only a few writers, like [ Melody C ] or M. Fae Glasgow can write sex so exciting, it's transcendental almost.
[Morticia]:
Due South seems easy to slash - in fact, too easy. I like my heroes deep in trouble! But the main obstacle for me is Marciano. Remember him from the Wiseguy episode Loose Cannon? He played an escaped basket-case who posed as Sonny's nephew and raped Vinnie's girl. Finally Vinnie shot him. He was so convincing I have difficulties now to find him cute!
[Lexin]:
A couple of footnotes to your comments about Paul Darrow and Gareth Thomas, and the slash story. I understood that the convention where Paul was given (or saw, it depends on whom you talk to) a slash story was in America, though I may have misunderstood. I'd also heard that the zine had a Paul/Gareth story in it - though to my knowledge, and again I'm willing to be corrected, no such story has ever been published. In fact, the whole rumour for the existence of this story seems to have originated from Paul and Janet Darrow themselves, certainly I've heard the tale from those who knew only about the fan wars' from their side, and was told this tale then. I do know that Gareth does not normally take a fee from British conventions, though he may do from foreign ones, because the time he has to take from work to attend them is so much longer, and he has to be reimbursed for the time he can't work. I think the same is true of Paul also. Paul and Gareth are friends again at the moment, though how long that will last has yet to be seen. Totally agree with you that thrusting slash in the faces of the stars is pretty stupid, though one or two have been known to express an unhealthy interest!
[Lexin]:
Also following BAGHEERA's comments about Gareth's behaviour at a particular convention, I agree he did behave very badly then - I've seen the tape! And I have to say that when he attended a convention I was involved with we were rather concerned beforehand, having heard a lot of stories about him, but he behaved beautifully. He was pleased to be there and we were pleased to welcome him, and would again. I wish it were true of all actor guests! Gossip and rumour retailed (at a price) in person...
[Lexin]:
I, too, co-write stories occasionally, though in my case the co-writer and I have to be together, usually with a good bottle of wine, and a few nibbles, and we sit and make notes, striking idea off each other. Just sometimes we stay sober long enough for something worthwhile to come out of it! Yes, Avon's much more fun when he's dangerous - and most appealing
when he's suffering!
[Lexin]:
MINNA'S comment about the 'poor little AJ' school of writing made me smile. There seems to be a lot of that in MUNCLE as well, with Illya being the one cast as the sad waif. Unlikely, I have always thought, the man's a trained secret agent.
[Harlem]:
Generally I prefer manga to anime, because I can read Japanese better than I can hear it, which is what comes of studying the stuff in university; and I prefer both to live-action shows, because I like my heroes impossibly long haired, inhumanly beautiful, of dubious gender and equally dubious sexuality, and preferably, if possible, one-eyed. All this is, as we know, the shoio manga speciality par excellence.
[Harlem]:
Picard/Q slash might be fun, but don't you think that Picard might find Q just a touch wearing as anything other than a one night stand? I would. And I bet Q would be all ready to settle down into the novel experience of matrimony and housekeeping while Picard was still trying to captain the
Enterprise... I prefer the idea of Picard/Data. Brainy men belong together. And while we're at it, why has no-one done any Geordi/Data slash? The episode where Data was - aah, can I say 'exploring his sexuality'? - had me wondering why Geordi didn't leap in (to coin a phrase) like a good friend and show him the ropes.
[Harlem]:
I don't read the English papers here, so when I saw the film on a flight back home, I didn't know who was playing Kimble, and I was wondering who this grey haired guy with the familiar face was. 'Know I've seen him somewhere... He kinda looks like Harrison Ford but older...' Why, incidentally, can't you stand Ford? I'm not a fan but I find him bearable-to-promising. He might just turn into Sean Connery some day, and not merely because he's his dad.
[Lindar]:
I am happy to have my location printed, and anyone who wants to contact me may do so via CARLA. Though I doubt there is anyone in my neck of the woods. We have a local science fiction group, but even the vaguest reference to slash met with complete disinterest, and the two slashy stories I printed in the annual magazine - of which I was editor for two years - were not at all well received. Whoops!
[Lindar]:
Did many of you see the Deep Space Nine episode Crossover where Major Kira met her other self in the old Star Trek 'Mirror Mirror' universe? There was a reference to Kirk and Spock which said that Spock was so influenced by our Kirk that he changed their own universe. Not for the better, actually. And there were incredible slashy scenes between the two Kiras, quite blatant, while the 'other' Garek told our Kira that the alternate one had fallen in love with her. Unfortunately, in true Trek tradition it was all sanitised by having us see that the alternate Kira actually had a male lover. Though she was obviously intended to be bi. Still on Deep Space Nine, I'm sure there must be loads of stories by now about Bashir and Garek, and I'd love to know where they are.
[Lindar]:
Since there is so much publicity now about the character of Talia Winters being bi, I wonder if JMS will ever get round to producing an episode which makes proper use of the fact, and doesn't turn out like most American cop-outs on the subject. I'm reminded of the fact that in the Next Generation episode The Outcast, (which depicts discrimination against gays without actually doing it) the androgynous woman who falls in love with Riker was supposed to have been played by a man. But the studio wouldn't allow it.
[Kitty Fisher]:
I'd better begin. Book recommendations first, the Outlander trilogy, by Diana Gabaldon. The first of these was raved about by a visiting American and I finally tracked them down in Murder One in London. I suppose they could be described as time travel romances (A woman from 1943, s t e p s through a circle of Scottish standing stones at midnight on Beltane and finds herself back in 1743 and amidst the Jacobite rebellion), but as far as I could see, the main point of the books was to make the her suffer as much as possible. Usually twice. To someone as depraved as myself, the stories are great fun and I recommend them to anyone who can suspend reality and enjoy a good romp where, for a change (in mainstream fiction), it is the man who has to sacrifice himself to preserve the virtue of his beloved. And when I say sacrifice, I mean sacrifice. Though for those of you with delicate sensibilities I can say that the two lovers are still alive at the end of the third book. Does anyone know anything about the author, because some of the books are extremely slashy, and more than once I wondered if she was one of us. [1]
[Kitty Fisher]:
I was going to write a lengthy essay on the subject of gay men, women and slash. But I've just wiped the whole thing as, quite frankly, I don't care what a few gay men think of the issue. Though to be frank, I think our version of male to male relationships as portrayed in slash is probably about as accurate as some of the lesbian fiction written by men (ie, not very). Though at least we don't have the two men in bed together only as a stop-gap between women. Apart from that minor caveat - I like slash, end of story.
[Kitty Fisher]:
You like your heroes to be vulnerable. So do I. But where you see Bodie in this role, I see Doyle. Whatever it is that creates a bond between the character on the screen/page and the viewer/reader is a strange and elusive thing, with very little to do with the normal rules of attraction. Seemingly especially so in the strange desire to see our hero go through the mill. You like Bodie to suffer, I like Doyle. You like Castillo to suffer, I like Crockett. I'm sure you could go on the same way in half a dozen fandoms. Quite why one side of a partnership appeals in that way I've yet to fathom, but for me it is an important part of slash. The same in SM stories. I get quite bored with stories where Bodie gets tied up by Doyle, but reverse that and I'm very happy. I'm sure there will be theses written on the subject one day.
[Edgie]:
You wonder how gay men are able to tell when someone else is gay. That is the 69-dollar question. Early on we develop gaydar which is short for gay radar. The dead giveaway is, I think, eye contact. Most men will not return another male's gaze, but will quickly avert their eyes. Not so gays! It used to be that one could use auxiliary information, such as dress and deportment, but hets have really been aggressive in appropriating gay male symbols such as dress and jewellery (how many teen and pre- teen boys know that the earrings they wear once screamed 'Faggot!' when worn by a male?). Like anything you practice long enough, such as walking or bicycle riding, you do subconsciously. Five seconds is often enough to make a judgement.
[Cushy Butterfield]:
I do actually prefer to 'know' which actors or characters an author is using so that I can imagine them in the story I am reading. I have come to realise that I am a very 'visual' person. I find it difficult to read slash stories about characters that I don't know - although I am sure that I am missing out on wonderful stories for shows like WotW or Simon & Simon which I have never seen and therefore skip when I come to them in zines. However, if there were pictures of 'good lookin' guys' it might just tempt me to expand my horizons.
Issue 27
Late for Breakfast 27 was edited by Carla S. It is undated, but appears to have been published in late October 1995. It contains 44 pages.
- the editor congratulates two subscribers who had recently won Huggy Awards
- there is a an open letter to subscribers of Late for Breakfast from the zine publishers Almost Foolproof Press addressing a comment in the previous issue of letterzine that the Press was dishonest and/or disorganized; it turns out, however, that the fan who'd made the original comment got that press mixed up with another one
- "The Back Door" (article) -- prefaced with "REVIEW CONTAINS SEXUALLY EXPLICIT DESCRIPTIONS OF ANAL SEX. PLEASE TEAR OUT AND DESTROY WITHOUT OPENING IF YOU THINK THIS MAY OFFEND YOU." It is "A personal experience from EDGIE."
- review of the pro book, Meltdown
- review of the pro books, "The Missions of Alex Kane," "Golden Years," "Deadly Lies," "Lethal Silence," "Stolen Lies," and "Secret Dangers" (all original gay fiction)
- review of the pro book, Accusations (Babylon 5 tie-in)
- a listing of the 1995 Huggy Award winners
- a listing of the 1995 STIFfie Award winners
[Carla, the editor]:
In light of these wins I'd like to suggest that we make every effort to get some British authors/artists/publishers nominated for the Stiffies. I have enclosed a nomination form for the Stiffies which you can copy (you need a sheet for every nomination you make) and I also hope that people will send in details of eligible stories/zines/artwork etc and I will put the details together and have it available in the February issue. (The deadline for nominations is 31 March 1996!) It's not that I think UK writers etc are better than US ones is just that they never seem to get nominated. And by the way, I don't mind anyone nominating LfB in the category of Best Informational Zine. Hint, hint!!!
[Carla, the editor]:
I have managed to get access to the Internet via the office but I don't want to get private mail there. If I get some money next year, I will be upgrading my computer and getting an email address but I'll let you know when/if that happens.
[Ferret]:
Regarding height as a determinant of dominance: I'd say this was probably true about 80% of the time, but in Due South (I'm sure I'll find plenty to say on Due South in this particular letter), Ray Vecchio is actually taller (Yes, Paul Gross wears built up shoes to match their height in some episodes) and Ray is still generally placed as a bottom man. Probably this is balanced to his being much thinner, (as well as being a bottom man to Fraser in the actual show anyway). Perhaps smaller, rather than just taller, is necessary.
[Ferret]:
I don't like Talia either, it's just that JMS wants to put her and Ivanova together. You'll be thrilled with the rumours of Talia's leaving, although I guess you've figured out by now that JMS spreads a lot of those rumours himself just to throw us off the track.
[Ferret]:
I agree with your comments about readers and their choice of explicit or tame. As you could have gathered from my letter in the last issue, I much prefer explicit scenes, and I do believe that a lot of people say they don't like it as they are concerned about being labelled perverts. In my own writing, I try for a load of angst, as I prefer angst and emotional pain etc., to just a pile of sex scenes, but when I do write a sex scene it's a loving description of every breath, stroke by stroke. The kinkier the better, although I admit that I don't really go as far into the area of sexual perversion as I would like as I'm aware that a lot of readers will come down on it pretty heavily, despite the inroads into that area by writers such as Shawne Gedge, JS Barton and M. Fae Glasgow. On the Internet slash list there was quite a lot of talk last year from people saying they didn't like seeing the explicit scenes, and many others took the same point of view, mostly because they didn't want to rock the boat. Someone (a lady from Germany I believe) came on and raised the issue of 'Fine One Handed Reading', and how she enjoyed a good rape story, and it was off! Every body started going, thank goodness someone will stand up and say they like the sex!'. I'm not a great fan of rape stories myself, not reading them anyway, I have written a few, but I was glad to see people standing up for what they wanted.
[Ferret]:
I hope that you can get over your not being able to see Ray as cute because of the role he played in Wiseguy! I was lucky, I only saw that Wiseguy episode after falling in love with Due South. Ray is, I very grudgingly admit, a bit odd looking, but he can be totally lovely a lot of the time. It's the clothes I think that make him look a bit of a doofus sometimes. To be honest, I prefer him to Fraser. Benton is lovely, of course, but it seems a cultural thing because of all the Due South fans I know and interact with in Australia, they all (but one) prefer Ray Vecchio to Benton Fraser. He's such a smoochie, and so totally and utterly devoted to his Mountie.
[Ferret]:
I've now started writing two Due South novellas, and one short story. The short story (which is a depressing suicide story which only barely classifies as slash - but it does have a happy ending) will be in Cohorts Two. The novellas are Perverse Pleasure (taken from a line in Letting Go, where Fraser tells Ray he took a perverse pleasure in seeing Ray get shot — which I haven't even seen yet), this is up to 80 pages, but still needs a final chapter (and more kinky sex), and No Good Deed Goes Unpunished, which is based on the episode The Deal. No Good Deed is basically a Zucko's revenge story. After Ray beat the shit out of Zucko, the local Mafia boss, did anyone really think Ray was going to be safe? Oh, yeah, plenty of angst in this one. It's partially inspired by the fantasies of a fellow Dueser in Canada, who is far kinkier in her tastes that me and is spurring me on to greater heights of depravity (I won't say depths — it's an art form!), and illustrated by someone in Seattle, so this is very much an international effort. I'll keep LfB updated on the status of these two zine-etts as it becomes appropriate. If you like your characters deep in trouble, there are plenty of possibilities in this show. Lots of ways you can screw them over completely. [2]
[Ferret]:
[addresses the only male subscriber]: Are you on the Internet slash list? If you tried, and were rejected because you are a man (yes, they are very biased, prejudice is rampant), you might like to try again as the list has just voted on a new open door policy. No one allowed to study slash, but apart from that it's far more open.
[Ferret]:
I agree with your comments on Batman Forever whole heartedly. I went to see this with three other slash fans, and we all agreed that without a slash subtext, the movie was really quite dull. Once we'd added our own comments to it, it was fun. Didn't you think that Bruce Wayne had his seduction of little boys technique down very pat and well practised? "Here, have some food, and have a look at all my lovely motor bikes - wouldn't you like a nice motor bike little boy? Come and sit on my knee and have a candy." What a dingo. And the police chief seemed very adept at dropping the young lads over at Wayne's house. "Here you go, Bruce, another young boy, he's an orphan, no family to raise any questions about the strange bruises. Thank you for your kind donation to the police man's ball!" All very suspicious. Jim Carrey himself also mentioned the fact that Ed Nigma had a major thing going for Bruce. Wants to 'be' Bruce? More like, wants to 'do' Bruce!
[Felicity]:
I'm afraid I can't get hot under the collar about someone retyping Waiting to Fall. As long as they are not doing it for profit, then I don't see the problem. Waiting to Fall was never published as a zine, so no editor is being done out of sales. It has been in circulation for many years now through fans photocopying it for themselves and/or others. That was the point of the circuit for Professionals slash fandom, after all. Just because the stories are now being put onto a computer disk doesn't change the basic situation, that these stories are in circulation to be read and copied by fans.
As for doing this without ROB's knowledge, all of us who circulated stories knew that they would be copied by whatever means. I seem to remember (and I'm sure ROB does too) that Masquerade was re-typed, photocopied and circulated without the author's knowledge, consent or anything else.
I have heard that there is the equivalent of the circuit library for Professionals stories on the Internet. My only concern would be over who has access to it. I'm not a believer in shoving slash fiction under the noses of those who either know nothing about it or who dislike the premise, I don't like the thought of Tom, Dick or Harriet, not to mention tv companies, gaining access to slash fiction that way.
[Felicity]:
I'm surprised no-one has written in with the reason for [this] letterzine's title, as the former editor did tell us. It's one character saying to another "Call me what you like, but don't call me late for breakfast. I did ask your predecessor where the quote came from but she couldn't remember, other than it sounded like a line from a film.
[Felicity]:
Your comment to LEXIN about non-fandom people regarding fan writing as a waste of talent is a view I have come across quite a number of times. While I agree that some fans have no wish to go beyond fandom, I have had comments which I think are to some extent justified. These are that fandom is a safe place for writing. There are ready-made characters and backgrounds; the writer can be as extreme or self-indulgent as s/he pleases; there is a ready-made readership, fairly uncritical - at least in print. And of course there is the kudos for some writers of being a name that will sell zines. Put that against the world of publishing, where you have to create a plot and original characters; where what your story ends up as will be dictated by commercial considerations, not by what you want to write. How much safer, easier and more instantly gratifying to stick to fanzines and an admiring readership that is clamouring for your next story.
[Felicity]:
I don't know of any easy way to promote British slash zines because I think they will always suffer because of their look. American zines (I can't talk about Australian ones) do look much nicer (regardless of content). As a generalisation, British readership is not particularly interested in the appearance of a zine or its artwork but that is exactly what seems to appeal to the US market. We don't have the finance, the equipment or the photocopying facilities to produce such zines, especially if they are slash. And I do wonder about the way the stories are written. Many fandoms are American tv-based and British writers have trouble with getting the background details and speech correct. So to any one in the US, the story is not going to come over as being a good piece of writing because of these inaccuracies. I know that the same applies the other way round and that US writers usually cannot get Bodie and Doyle to sound like anything other than two Yanks but then they are writing mainly for a US readership who won't be aware of the differences in the first place.
[Felicity]:
I'll second your comment that Professionals fandom has some of the best written fan fiction around. As I wade my way through very indifferent writing in certain other fandoms, I realise how spoilt I am by the terrific B/D stories I've read over the years.
[Felicity]:
Like you, I've always wondered why it's never Geordi/Data that's considered as a pairing, since they've always seemed close. Is it usually Data/Picard because they are the two most interesting characters in TNG7 As for Picard/Q - spare me. Last time I saw Q put an arm round the captain's shoulder, Picard's expression was that of someone finding he'd stepped in something nasty. For a man with such a French name, he remains incredibly English...
[Artemis]:
Let's get the serious stuff out of the way first. Re CUSHY's stop press in LfB 26 [about Waiting to Fall] this is the first I've heard about this happening. It seems as if it's being done with the best of intentions, and I think that there are some arguments in favour of circulating circuit stories via the Internet, but I strongly feel that it's totally unethical to distribute a writer's work in any form whatsoever without asking their permission first.
[Artemis]:
Less seriously re the B7 pregnancy stories I read one in a recent Southern Comfort zine where Vila discovered that Avon was a female to male transsexual, and believe me you don't want to know how he found out! Avon then confesses that as a thirteen year old girl he gave birth to Blake's daughter, before Blake's cruel father parted the young lovers forever. When they met again Avon decided against telling Blake that he was the girl he'd once loved, but he did use Orac to find out what had become of the baby he'd been forced to give up for adoption. Avon and Blake's long lost daughter turned out to be Servalan, but Avon insists that she only became a terrible person because she lacked his motherly love. By this time I didn't know whether to laugh or to throw up, but the implication at the end of the story was that big butch Vila was going to take care of poor little female Avon.
[Artemis]:
Like you I've always thought Servalan/Avon to be a wonderful combination, as powerful and interesting as any slash pairing, and I'm disappointed that there is so little A/S fiction around in B7 fandom. I haven't been in B7 fandom long enough to know why this is, but I'd love to find out if anyone else knows. Though I'm mainly a slash fan I'm not adverse to exploring possible straight pairings in any series that has halfway decent female characters in it. An attitude which got me into trouble with one woman I was talking to at a con who told me that I wasn't a real slash fan if I also liked the straight stuff, but I think that most people are willing to live and let live.
[Artemis]:
Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea: this is one of my favourite all time rave shows, silly plots, stupid monsters, and wonderful men. The most popular slash pairing is Nelson/Crane, and there are some rather slashy episodes involving those two characters. Even if you're not familiar with the series I'd still recommend the British Voyage based slash fiction which has been published over the past three or four years, most of it is excellent.
[Artemis]:
I was also very interested in your explanation of the ways gay men recognise each other, especially when you consider how many slash relationships are based on looks and smiles between on screen characters. I've just finished writing a slash story which was solely inspired by my liking the way two character's looked a each other in one short scene in a film. So it's nice to know that eye contact really is one of the main ways gay men recognise each other.
[Lindar]:
I was horrified to read that people are distributing slash stories on the Internet without permission from the authors or payment to the original publishers. As both a writer and a publisher, I, personally, find it reprehensible. I don't know what we can do about it, but anyone on the Net should send a strong protest. I believe the best form of protest is bombing their E-Mail number with a continuous message, so maybe someone could arrange this? They are actually breaking legal copyright laws as well as moral ones.
[Lindar]:
I rushed to see Batman Forever after reading a review in a men's magazine that they were as gay as you could get without actually saying so. But I only found it averagely slashy, apart from a few seconds of dialogue and the bit where Robin pleads with Batman to become his partner. It was all a bit too fast and furious and savagely hacked together, and it seemed to lack the dark, gothic mystery of the first film. Kilmer was beautiful, but for me he lacked the magnetic angst of Keating in the first film. The second film was trash.
[Lindar]:
I like to put my men through emotional hoops too, and with a particular purpose. I only write about very strong men, so it takes a lot to bring out their emotions or break down their defences, and about a whole novel to wring one tear. I do like to see strong men cry - but only a little. And I know that because I've laid the foundations for a character who isn't easily broken, when they do reach the end of their endurance, they can recover realistically without being left an emotional wreck.
[Lindar]:
I do like some sex in stories, except the very shortest ones which can be about nothing relating to physical contact. There don't have to be ten pages of steamy plumbing, but it seems to me a bit pointless to have a long story or a novella about two men falling in love, being in a relationship or maybe only discovering their attraction to their own sex, without some kind of sexual content. As the whole point of slash writing is to
make two men become attracted to one another sexually instead of only being good friends, there don't seem to be many other avenues to take. I've read so many stories with asterisks, or stopping outside the bedroom door, and I often feel cheated if nothing happens at all. This is only a personal view though, and stems from the fact that I also like mainstream hetero novels to contain some sex. I feel that both fiction and real life are not complete without it.
[Edgie, the only male subscriber]:
No, I don't have a problem dealing with women, though I'm not really close with many. I guess I'm what you'd call homosocial (in addition to everything else). My first guess is that extreme misogyny has something to do with a bad relation with one's mother. I think that this problem shows up with hets just as often as with gays, but the manifestation is different (wife- beating, etc.) When I was younger and actively looking for men, I used to refer to women jokingly as the competition'. Many of my gay friends have more women friends
than they do male. Go figure!
[Edgie, the only male subscriber]:
I was unaware of the anti-slash nature of the current Internet messages on B7. It wasn't that way a year or two ago, but things change. Still, one can eventually figure out who thinks what and exchange private messages with 'birds of a feather'.
[Pamina]:
Isn't that emotional commitment the line that divides slash from mainstream gay fiction. In slash the sexual aspect of the relationship is usually the end whereas in gay fiction it is usually the beginning. You know: boy meets boy, they have a steamy physical relationship and then fall in love. (I have a lovely vision of EDGIE shaking his head at this point and reaching for his pen...). In slash our heroes have got to know each other pretty well first, have become emotionally entangled with each other and have usually faced at least one personal crisis or life threatening situation before they take that final step. A gay friend of mine says the tendency slash writers have for putting their character through the emotional wringer before putting them between the sheets is the reason why he and his partner don't like slash. My response to that was it's the same reason
I'm not very interested in gay fiction. Isn't IDIC a wonderful thing.
[Cushy]:
Does anyone here go to mainstream Trek cons anymore? I was invited by a friend of mine, who produces gen zines, to go with her to Nexus a Star Trek/Science Fiction con held in Bristol in August. It is a long time since I have been to a major con and I am sorry to say that I thought most of the fun seems to have been taken out of it. Very well organised, in fact so organised, I found it frightening. Committee Members (I think) walking around with megaphones! Very small dealers room, no fan clubs were there, hence no fanzines (apart from what we were selling) and the majority of dealers were obviously professional who hadn't heard of anything costing under £9.99 - or should that be £19.99. We were only there for the day thank goodness - but at least being with a dealer - I got to see the guest at a private tea party. I would like to report that John de Lancie is a very nice man - and close up - rather sexy!
[Cushy]:
Personally though, and I must reiterate I have no problems with homosexuality, heterosexuality or bisexuality but I have no desire to read about two woman. Somehow it doesn't turn me on and being turned on is why I turned to slash in the first place. It has to be two men for me. I can read hetero sex and quite enjoy it, but somehow two women no. It just doesn't have the emotional "schwing" that I need.
[Cushy]:
I aqree with you about Illya - I not only think the man is a trained secret agent, I also think he can be a vicious little toe rag sometimes. He certainly manages to abuse Napoleon quite a bit in one of the Nazi episodes they did. I am, and always have been a certified mad MUNCLE fan - I will buy everything and anything to do with the series. However, the amount of authors who will insist on making Illya a small, pitiful, pathetic, wimp with a SMALL PENIS makes me squirm.
[Cushy]:
Re Waiting to Fall and British circuit stories: I have had quite a lot of 'internet chat' with the lady who runs the library in the States and it appears that they have been for the last few years re-typing and/or scanning most of the old British circuit stories which are then circulated freely amongst fans over there via email. (Quite how long it would take to download Waiting to Fall at over 600 pages I have no idea!) Anyway, although my immediate reaction to this was 'heh, wait a minute...'and "wouldn't it be polite to notify the author..' after discussing it through and having been asked to justify what the difference between photocopying stories and re-typing them was (a question I must be honest I found difficult to answer), I have sort of got used to the idea. I can confirm that they are being re-typed EXACTLY as originals vis British spelling etc. The lady who runs the library was MOST emphatic that nothing is changed. However, Waiting to Fall does need an edit (so says the author as well as me) so it has been agreed that we will be sent a disc with the whole re-typed story and it can be edited, and then presumably made available to people over here as well. Anyone interested?
[Rafferty]:
I've been writing fan fiction since the mid-seventies, and slash fan fiction since 1979. Having co-edited a monthly letterzine (the original Starsky & Hutch letterzine), I can appreciate all the work CARLA has done, and wish to thank her for all the effort. I also wish to thank CUSHY for offering assistance to CARLA. In my days with letterzines, there would have been fewer issues had it not been for the help of other fans.
[Rafferty]:
[Rafferty]:
I am not a financially independent professional writer, but I have been paid to write both fiction and non-fiction. From that perspective, I can express my feelings regarding fan writing: I love it because it has no rules. I can do anything I want, including the dreaded Mary Sue, and for the most part I have a ready made audience. In some fandoms, like Starsky & Hutch, there was a group of incredibly fine story editors who encouraged the writers to perform to a high standard of excellence. In other fandoms, there are virtually no story editors and stories go into circulation directly out of the typewriter (or printer). Instant gratification is the order of the day and if I had to give one reason for fanwriting, it would-be instant gratification. And besides, it's fun.
[Rafferty]:
On the soap box: I would like to encourage caution in the world of slash fandom. Please be careful on the Internet and the Web. Big Brother is listening and watching. In the US these days, we call it a Republican conspiracy, and some days it can be scary. I am wary of people who dump slash stories in the laps of the actors who portrayed the characters and those people who wish to publish slash stories on the Internet or those people who wish to out other people. I do not believe that one person's First Amendment Rights are more important than another person's right to privacy. Ladies and Gentlemen, privacy is very important to the writers, illustrators, editors and publishers of slash fan-fiction. If you want to continue to have the freedom to obtain and read slash fan fiction, please help to protect those who produce it.
[[O'Brien]:
Many kudos for CARLA. I put out the second S&H letterzine in the mid-80s (Between Friends), all by myself, and I know how much work it is. Blessings upon CUSHY for offering to help. I'm thrilled to have discovered these pages, and would be heartbroken to see them disappear just when I've found them.
[[O'Brien]:
I always loved Classic Trek and my best hero was always Kirk until I fell head over heels for Picard. I adore the man and would love to read about him with almost anybody, but particularly with Data or Q. They both seem like worthy partners for him. I've only ever read a few poorly written slash zines involving various ST:TNG crew members, and would love to read a well-written excitingly plotted slash novel featuring Picard/? I don't go to many cons and gave up on finding such a zine. Zines are too expensive these days to just buy them at random hoping you might find something good.
[Annie]:
For those of us who haven't made it to the 'Net yet (hopefully next year, even if I have to mortgage the cat!), LfB is the next best thing.
[Annie]:
In view of the comments regarding Paul Darrow's (and other actors') views of slash, I thought this might interest you - while I can't say what the actor's personal view of slash writing per se is, I can tell you that Andrew Robinson has come out in print as deliberately putting a homoerotic slant to the character of Garak, particularly where Bashir is concerned. He has decided that it makes the character more interesting (I certainly agree!). He likes the idea that 'ladies' man' Bashir will always be wondering if Garak has designs on him, and Andy plans to make sure no one (including Bashir) is ever sure whether he does or not. When asked about Garak's sexual preferences at a con (and bless the person who had the courage to ask!), Andy replied "Garak's motto is, 'If it moves, go for it!'" Rumor has it that at a convention in Atlanta where he appeared with Siddig El Fadil, he was asking around at dealer's tables for slash zines. What I'd like to know is if he READ any! [..] I read a Patrick Stewart magazine interview in which he was asked if he was aware of slash, and he said he was; at least of K/S. He was also told that fans wonder if Q has designs on him, and he said that as far as the character of Q was concerned, Patrick had made up his mind that Q was probably interested in having sex with him - although he didn't volunteer what Picard's reaction to that would be, and the interviewer didn't ask, for some reason!
[Annie]:
I'm one of those who does feel that I haven't gotten my money's worth if I read a slash story with 'no sex' in it - but, while I still prefer it to be explicit, I have broadened my horizons somewhat and realize that a story can be very erotic without explicit descriptions. If it is indeed well written, with sufficient emotional background, then kissing, cuddling, being naked, fantasizing, etc. would all come under my definition of sex in slash.
[Dragon]:
I was interested to see the flyer from CUSHY talking about stories that are being posted on the Internet without the author's permission. I must admit, I am seriously thinking of going on line purely because more and more of the fan stuff I want is available on the Internet, but I assumed that the stories that are there were sent out by the original authors or at least in the form of a zine library where the authors know about it. Naive of me I guess. I'm not sure what I feel about this. It's nice that people get a chance to view stories they might not otherwise see, but it might upset an author if they saw a story going out without their permission. It wouldn't worry me particularly if I saw a story of mine there, but it might some people. Of course zine editors might not like it, but it is a way round buying a zine for maybe only one story that you want and must have. You can pick and choose what you want on the Internet. No doubt I shall know more about this when I go on line.
[Dragon]:
Typical isn't it, you get too much A/B and I get too much A/V. What I object to is getting stuck with a zine that's supposed to be a mixture only to find there's about one story in it that's A/B. You probably have the opposite trouble. That's the drawback with liking a fandom that has two main pairings. Most of the others stick to one main one with a few combinations thrown in sometimes.
[Dragon]:
Yes, fans can sometimes get quite rabid about their particular show in the 'You will see it my way' vein. Like you said, different views should make for an interesting discussion, not a fist fight. Did you see Beam Me Up, Scotty on tv that was about science fiction fandom and the Worldcon in Glasgow in particular? When they were going on about the sexual mores of Sci Fi I was wondering if they would mention slash. There are loads of people out there that aren't even aware of the phenomenon and it looks as if they'll remain ignorant. Wouldn't it make a good article for a journalist to do, this sub culture that goes around throwing well known characters of the same sex into bed with one another?
[Tarlan]:
On the 'People should not write what they do not know about' argument your thoughts over joint authorship did make me laugh. You are so right in wondering how far their argument extends. Does this mean that, as a woman, I am only entitled to write about women? What about race, creed, sexual orientation, disabilities. I think I have reached the conclusion that I may only write about MYSELF!!!! Actually, that's not so bad as I have a very vivid imagination which includes slashing my favourite male characters so we have come full circle! I certainly don't feel that I am wasting any talent in writing stories based around existing characters, as you so rightly implied, I write to please myself. If other people gain pleasure from my stories too then that is icing on the cake.
[Tarlan]:
I must admit that I do not let on to anyone outside of the slash community that I read and write slash. I have seen and heard some extremely anti-Gay, anti-slash views from people and I really do not want to have to deal with their hang-ups. I've got enough of my own!! I am very fortunate that I do have friends who know about my involvement and who can read my stories without prejudice.
[Tarlan]:
I am still amazed that anyone could be so stupid as to send - or show - a slash zine to one of the actors being portrayed but some people in fandom do not seem to be able to separate fantasy (the character on the screen) from reality (the actor).
References
- ^ Uh, no. Far from it.
- ^ Neither story ended up being published in that zine.