Talk:I was thinking about the ghosts of fandoms past

Question about the Tumblr category removed: Is it because it is too broad? That if we have that one, then all pages should have a "place it resides"? Should the Usenet categories also be removed on posts? These: Alt.startrek.creative‏‎ (11 members), Alt.startrek.creative.erotica.moderated‏‎ (14 members), Alt.tv.x-files.creative‏‎ (15 members)? We do have Category:Print Media, but perhaps not related the same way? --MPH (talk) 13:16, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

I think we should leave the Tumblr "as place where it resides" Category because it is something people like to know -- how did discussions and fandom changeover time in response to platforms. Also I am always confused when categories are deleted without discussion.MeeDee (talk) 16:09, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

I removed the Tumblr category because it looked like it was added only because the post was made on tumblr and that the topic of the meta wasn't about tumblr. We've never had pages for all meta posted to LJ or all meta posted to a mailing list. If we really need to have a category for all meta posted on tumblr regardless of topic, we should have a separate category for "Meta Posted On Tumblr" so it won't swamp a category for pages that are *about* tumblr. We've also never had a category that was just the name of the platform with no context, so I'm not a fan of Category:Tumblr in general as everything and the kitchen sink could end up there.

I had assumed that the Alt.startrek.creative‏‎ categories were being used for pages that were about the newsgroup itself, but I didn't check.--aethel (talk) 17:47, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

OK so more thinking....Categories can be used to tag things that are about something (Ex: This is a post about the Usenet) and pages that are discussions that happen on a specific platform (Ex: This is post about Dr Who that took place on the Usenet). I don't think we should be rigid in how we use Categories. If we only have 20 pages that talk either about the Usenet or discussions that took place on the Usenet, then a single Usenet tag might suffice. Tumblr posts might benefit from two tags: Tumblr Meta (discussions about Tumblr as platform or Tumblr as a community) as well as "Tumblr Era" -- discussions abut any topic that took place on the Tumblr platform. Because I often get the question: "what were people talking about on Livejournal" or "what were people talking about on Usenet" so we know that this is something our community wants us to track. I have written several meta posts about how the structure of the platform fandom inhabits shapes not only the topics that people discuss, but their underlying fandom communities, expectations and fandom "norms". MeeDee (talk) 17:52, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

Categories do need to be well defined though, however we define them; wiki categories form a hierarchical structure and are not the same as free-form tags. If we want to have Meta by Platform categories like we do Meta By Year, I think that's doable.--aethel (talk) 18:17, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

P.S. I do think we need to be careful not to expect categories to do everything and answer every question--the more unrestricted a category is, the more cluttered and less meaningful it is. The "what topics were people talking about on LJ" question could be answered in part with a category that lists every meta post on that platform, but if we started adding general topics like the Slash page to that category, it would look like we were claiming LJ invented slash, when really it was just one of many places where people talked about it.

Another thought: more structure might help Category:Meta. Right now things like "Fanfiction Meta" are buried under Meta Essays with all the fandom-specific meta. We could add a layer for Meta by Topic (and Meta by Fandom?) following the pattern of Meta by Year.--aethel (talk) 18:50, 7 February 2018 (UTC)