Talk:List of Riverdale Relationship Names
Illegal
Since when do we have a separate illegal category? I never seen this on any of the other Pairings Lists, and there are lots of other pairings in other fandoms where one member is under age. I have seen a separate category for incest (which I don't necessarily agree with), but by calling it illegal are we not shaming the fans that like those pairings? -- Kingstoken (talk 16:32, 05 December 2018 (UTC)
- Agreed. The edit was made here: https://fanlore.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Riverdale_Relationship_Names&oldid=1298842
- I am reverting it. --MPH (talk) 17:17, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
- It also looks like the same user removed a bunch of pairing name overnight? I don't know enough about this fandom to say if that was a legit edit to make, though. - Hoopla (talk) 17:18, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
- In regards to the removal of extra ship names I think most of those edits were alright, because obviously one or two ship names will become prominent. However, I am not a 100% sure, because I am only involved in "Parentdale" fandom, which is the term for the parents/adults on the show -- Kingstoken (talk 18:19, 05 December 2018 (UTC)
- It also looks like the same user removed a bunch of pairing name overnight? I don't know enough about this fandom to say if that was a legit edit to make, though. - Hoopla (talk) 17:18, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
- Oops I missed this earlier. I think that this page is our only information about most of those ships on the site, right? If they all had ship pages then I'd say obviously we'd just move the ship names that didn't make it to the ship's history section or whatever, but since they don't have pages... I dunno it feels like fannish information that's just been lost? Although, yknow, I'm not even really involved with any ships so maybe ship names that didn't make it just aren't very important in the long run and I shouldn't stress over it lmao. - Hoopla (talk) 20:59, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
- I think List of Marvel Cinematic Universe Relationship Names might use it? Personally, I don't really think it's a useful genre heading until and unless the het/slash/femslash headings need to be split up because slash incest ships are still slash. I prefer to avoid reading incest, but imo we should treat incest ships just like all the other ships — unless the folks who have incest ships in this fandom would genuinely prefer they be separated out. But I think if it's not a decision made by the people who ship those ships, it will come off as a value judgement. - Hoopla (talk) 17:54, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
- Personally I like to have all the ships in one list and just add more columns and re-sort as needed so you don't have to choose how to split them up. Then you could add "incest" in an additional notes column. For example: List of Bandom Ship Names, List of One Direction Ship Names.--aethel (talk) 23:55, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
- I'm not sure if I like this format or not. It works well for smaller fandoms, but for larger fandoms I think it is better to have some way of splitting the list up. like could you imagine the length of the MCU list alone, and if you are looking for the pairing name for one femslash ship you'd have to scroll through a lot instead of just clicking on femslash pairings -- Kingstoken (talk 00:24, 06 December 2018 (UTC)
- I don't like the table setup like this; it requires too much scrolling. I'd rather have the full-names ship names listed, and then the variations after that in a text list; people can search the page for a ship name. Example:
- * Archie Andrews/Cheryl Blossom: Archeryl, Charchie, Cherarchie
- * Jason Blossom/Cheryl Blossom: Blossomcest, Cherson, Cherason, Jaseryl, Twincest (add refnote here that this is used in other fandoms). Note: this pairing involves canonical incest; because of this, some fans find it immoral or offensive.
- Otherwise, I'd prefer that each main character got a page and the ships for that character were listed on their individual pages, and the main fandom page lists those characters, and any ships that are too small to go under main character pages. (So: "See Archie Andrews for character info and shipping lists.") We should not need a page that lists every possible ship combination and smushname in large fandoms. (I mean. Harry Potter. Can you imagine? You'd need a full page just for the Harry listings.) -- Elf (talk) 22:48, 15 December 2018 (UTC)
- But, there is a List of Harry Potter Pairing Names page -- Kingstoken (talk) 1:25, 16 December 2018
- I'm not sure if I like this format or not. It works well for smaller fandoms, but for larger fandoms I think it is better to have some way of splitting the list up. like could you imagine the length of the MCU list alone, and if you are looking for the pairing name for one femslash ship you'd have to scroll through a lot instead of just clicking on femslash pairings -- Kingstoken (talk 00:24, 06 December 2018 (UTC)
- Personally I like to have all the ships in one list and just add more columns and re-sort as needed so you don't have to choose how to split them up. Then you could add "incest" in an additional notes column. For example: List of Bandom Ship Names, List of One Direction Ship Names.--aethel (talk) 23:55, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
- I think List of Marvel Cinematic Universe Relationship Names might use it? Personally, I don't really think it's a useful genre heading until and unless the het/slash/femslash headings need to be split up because slash incest ships are still slash. I prefer to avoid reading incest, but imo we should treat incest ships just like all the other ships — unless the folks who have incest ships in this fandom would genuinely prefer they be separated out. But I think if it's not a decision made by the people who ship those ships, it will come off as a value judgement. - Hoopla (talk) 17:54, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
- Hi, I added the attention gardeners tag because of a potential editing dispute (edit war?) between myself and another editor. It was not my intention to start anything, I reversed an edit and left a something on the editors' talk page telling her to to please see talk page and the consensus on not using the illegal category. When I try to return the pairings to the regular het, slash, etc the other editor keeps adding more or reversing my edits. I know the page currently looks a bit of a mess, but I am giving up, for the moment, out of frustration. -- Kingstoken (talk) 20:15, 15 December 2018 (UTC)
Attempt to clean up this page
I have some time on my hands and I'm hoping to tackle this page. Part of the reason it's so long is that a number of cross-generational ship are in both het/slash tables as well as the Underage table. Underage does not actually include all underage pairings and only includes cross generational pairings - either Riverdale Parent/Riverdale Teen, or Riverdale character/Jellybean. If all underage pairings were put in that table, it would include all pairings other than Parentdale ships. Also the List of Harry Potter Pairing Names doesn't split cross-gen ships so I don't think we should start doing that here.
So I propose
- reverting page back to how it looked 12 December 2018 - before the illegal/underage table was created
- go through history to manually add in any pairings added after 8/12/18
- go through history to manually restore any pairings that were vandalized before this date!
- include tables for het, slash, threesomes and moresomes,
incest,and crossover pairings - add a fandom category to the crossover table (most pairing are either CAOS or TVD x-overs)
I know the inclusion of incest as a subcategory was controversial, and this page is still protected, so I do want to get editors permission before beginning these changes. And if there are any suggestions for improving this page, alongside cleaning up the hostile editing, let me know! --Auntags (talk) 12:36, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
- Are there any relationships on there that aren't pairings? It thought the wording "relationship" was to include gen relationships, like friendships, parent & child, etc. Maybe the parent/child relationships are supposed to be parent & child? I find this page very confusing. --Doro (talk) 13:11, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
- Any incestuous parent/child ships are in the incest category. Ships in the underage category are very much adult/teen (where characters are not related - sorry if that wasn't clear above). There are many pairings on this page that are extremely rare. There are ships here that do not have any fics on Ao3, and I cannot find any reference online to their multiple pairing smoosh names listed here. (They may have originated from a discord server) So ultimately I am not familiar enough with them to say for sure they are romantic/sexual, but I'm making that assumption based on the use of the virgule. And the fact that someone tried to classify all these relationships as illegal/underage.--Auntags (talk) 15:00, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
- I'm still against a separated "incest pairings" table, this list, and I think the Marvel list, are the only two lists that separate out the incest pairings. I feel doing so puts a judgment on those pairings, like if it is an brother/sister ship it should be listed under het, if it's brother/brother it should go in the slash, etc, if anyone is interested in learning more about the the pairing they can click on the pairing article and I'm sure the article will mention that the two characters are related. But, thank you for attempting to clean up the list, I tried awhile ago, but I just decided to give up on it -- Kingstoken (talk) 16:38, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
- For what it's worth, I'm also against separating incest pairings. Especially as there doesn't seem to be any consensus lately in fandom what constitudes an incest pairing, at least when shipwars are involved. (Looking at you, Voltron fandom.) --Doro (talk) 20:07, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
- And when both pairings in a shipwar are objectively incest of a comparable degree, people will just find ways to argue their ship is somehow the more acceptable. I'm also against placing incest pairings into a separate subcategory because I think it's setting an unhelpful precedent. Incest pairings are sometimes canonical and they sometimes become juggernaut ships. And don't think it would be helpful to move Sam/Dean out of the slash category on List of Supernatural Relationship Names, or Cersei/Jaime out of the het category on List of Game of Thrones Pairing Names, since it would make popular pairings harder to find. Night Rain (talk) 20:57, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
- Seems like we have a consensus on not including the incest table! Just fyi List of MCU Relationship Names and List of Harry Potter Pairing Names both separate out incest pairings, but you're right, that's no reason to apply the same criteria to this fandom (or to any other fandom, without discussion). --Auntags (talk) 22:43, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
- And when both pairings in a shipwar are objectively incest of a comparable degree, people will just find ways to argue their ship is somehow the more acceptable. I'm also against placing incest pairings into a separate subcategory because I think it's setting an unhelpful precedent. Incest pairings are sometimes canonical and they sometimes become juggernaut ships. And don't think it would be helpful to move Sam/Dean out of the slash category on List of Supernatural Relationship Names, or Cersei/Jaime out of the het category on List of Game of Thrones Pairing Names, since it would make popular pairings harder to find. Night Rain (talk) 20:57, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
- For what it's worth, I'm also against separating incest pairings. Especially as there doesn't seem to be any consensus lately in fandom what constitudes an incest pairing, at least when shipwars are involved. (Looking at you, Voltron fandom.) --Doro (talk) 20:07, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
Going to start the proposed clean up in a few hours. Per agreement above, the incest table will be removed from this page, with incest pairings added to the most relevant table instead.--Auntags (talk) 15:26, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
- Thanks for putting this page in order! Night Rain (talk) 21:45, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
Sources for Ship Names
I'm starting to think some of these pairing names are not right, and their inclusion may be a form of hostile editing. I have never encountered a fandom with two pairings that have the same ship name, AND one of them is an incest ship and the other is not. (See Marchie in the Het table) There are pairings on this page that I can't find one source for the ship itself existing - nothing on Ao3 or tumblr or google search results - and yet they have multiple pairing names. Is there anyone in Riverdale fandom who can confirm some of the pairings and names on this page? And if not, should we have minimum requirements for the inclusion of ships and ship names? (and I mean bare minimum - a tweet, something in the tumblr tag, or one work on ao3/ffn/wattpad) --Auntags (talk) 23:20, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
- I'm in Riverdale fandom, and the funny thing is, I've heard the ship name "Marchie" used for a slash ship, Archie/Munroe (aka Mad Dog), that is not to say the other two are not valid, I've just never heard of them. I will try and go through the list and see if there is anything that looks really suspect -- Kingstoken (talk) 10:30, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
List of Ships I Can Find No Fanworks For
Het
These may need to be deleted. (I'm checking Google search, A03 and Tumblr, if there is anywhere else I should check let me know)
- Fred Andrews/Geraldine Grundy
- Mary Andrews/Archie Andrews
- Archie Andrews/Polly Cooper (this one I only found one fic for)
- Tom Keller/Alice Cooper (I found one post on tumblr about them)
- Tom Keller/Hermione Lodge
- Archie Andrews/Penny Peabody
- Dilton Doiley/Betty Cooper
- Thanks for compiling these Kingstoken. I was too tired last night to go through them. As your examples are all het, I went through the het table. The following pairings have zero works on Ao3 (where the majority of Riverdale fanfiction appears to be). When googling the ship names, a lot of them appear on this troll fic on Wattpad, but no where else.
- Archie Andrews/Melody V
- Chic/Josie
- Claudius Blossom/Hermione Lodge
- Claudius Blossom/Penelope Blossom
- Clifford Blossom/Alice Cooper
- Clifford Blossom/Hermione Lodge
- Daryl Doiley/Penelope Blossom
- Dilton Doiley/Veronica Lodge
- Dilton Doiley/Toni Topaz
- FP Jones II/Sierra McCoy
- Jughead/Geraldine Grundy
- Hal Cooper/Hermione Lodge
- Reggie Mantle/Hermione Lodge
- Marti Mantle/Hermione
- Jason Blossom/Ethel Muggs (fan theory on reddit)
- Dilton Doiley/Josie McCoy
- Kevin Keller/Toni Topaz
- Josie McCoy/Malachi
- Jughead Jones/Melody V
- That isn't to say there isn't a fandom for them. There might be - editors should feel free to cross out any pairings that you know have a following or some form of fan activity related to them. And maybe put a link to an example in brakcets after the pairing. (I added the only jason/ethel example I could find-- but it still doesn't mention the ship names and this is a page for ship names)
- If we can't find sources I think a large number of pairings may have to be deleted. There's already been discussion above about how List of Harry Potter Pairing Names doesn't list every single HP ship, and that talk page includes examples of ship names not in use, been removed from the page. --Auntags (talk) 13:15, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
Femslash
- Betty Cooper/Valerie Brown (only one fic for them)
- Polly Cooper/Betty Cooper (only one fic for them)
- Cheryl Blossom/Ethel Muggs
- Penelope Blossom/Cheryl Blossom
- Ethel Muggs/Midge Klimp
- Polly Cooper/Ethel Muggs
- Sierra McCoy/Josie McCoy
- Polly Cooper/Melody Valentine
- Polly Cooper/Josie McCoy
- Veronica Lodge/Polly Cooper (only one fic for them)
Slash
- Archie Andrews/Chic Cooper (only one fic for them)
- Fangs Fogarty/Chic Cooper
- Chuck Clayton/Dilton Doiley
- Clifford Blossom/Fred Andrews
- Dilton Doiley/Archie Andrews
- Dilton Doiley/Reggie Mantle
- FP Jones/Archie Andrews (only one fic for them)
- FP Jones/Clifford Blossom (only one fic for them)
- FP Jones/Marty Mantle
- Kevin Keller/Dilton Doiley
- Nick St. Clair/Jughead Jones
Moresomes
- FP/Fred/Hiram/Hermione
- Hiram/FP/Hermione
I think I've gone through the entire list now and picked out all the ones I can't find any fanworks for, or maybe only one or two fanworks for -- Kingstoken (talk) 14:01, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
Ships removed from page
I have removed the ships listed above from this page. A fanlore page of ship names does not list every ship in the fandom, and ship names that are not in use should be removed for the list. If you disagree with any of the changes made, please add a comment below. Also if you believe any information on this page is incorrect, please comment below and incorrect information will be removed.
The page will remain locked and the Gardeners flag is still in place, as the CAOS x-over ship names still need to be reviewed. --Auntags (talk) 16:38, 28 March 2021 (UTC)