I've read the latest edit, but I don't actually think that stories dealing with historical slavery as institution in a realistic manner are called "slavefic" by anyone. I mean, for example a YA book like The Astonishing Life of Octavian Nothing wouldn't be called "slavefic" by anyone if fandom afaik, and not just because it isn't a fanwork.--Ratcreature 23:13, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
- Well, I've seen the word applied to at least one original story about a slave in ancient Rome. I think it was aiming to be fairly realistic, but I wouldn't say the author succeeded. And I have to admit, this usage of the word seems to be the exception, and if ever it applied to fanfictions involving slaves in a setting that today seems exotic to us (ancient Rome or Greece, for example). -- Rodo 23:22, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
- Actually, the term has frequently been applied to historical fiction. There are a lot of Greek and Roman based stories out there (and I've even seen the odd story set in more recent times). I assure you it isn't just me who uses the term to apply to such stories, I've seen it used many times. I admit that most slavefics don't deal with slavery in a realistic manner, but that doesn't mean that ones that do wouldn't be called by the same name. -- Lanta 23:30, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
- I think Ratcreature's point still stands; "slavefic" as a term is generally, IMO, understood to refer to a story where the concept of slavery is used in a romantic or kinky sense. (Similar to, say, fandom's liking for m/m Regency AUs or pirate fic; the point is the period trappings as props for the fantasy, not strict historical accuracy.) If someone recced a story to me by calling it slavefic, I would *generally* assume, 95% of the time, that the main thrust of the story is a romantic and/or kinky master/slave relationship. -- Liviapenn 00:48, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
- Saying that, though, assumes that fics written with an attempt at historical accuracy - or even any fics without a master/slave romance - aren't going to appeal to people who crave slavefics, which is simply just not true (I run the slavefics community; I know for a fact that many of its members both write and read gen slavery fics). -- Lanta 00:55, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
- Gen can be still "kink" though. Like people having a h/c kink. That may be TMI but for me as a reader to work as kink it is irrelevant whether the people in the story have sex, as long as the power dynamic, i.e. the servitude is depicted in a way that pushes my buttons. I like gen slavefic as D/s fantasy material as much as I like het or slash slavefic. I don't get off on historically accurate depictions of slavery, because there the power dynamics aren't "kink".--Ratcreature 01:08, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
- Ditto Ratcreature, again-- I'm not saying that non-sexual slave stories wouldn't appeal to fans of romantic/kinky slave stories. All I'm saying is that, in fandom, *generally speaking*, when people use the label "slavefic," they usually are correctly understood as meaning the romantic/kinky master/slave AU fantasy type fic. (On your own comm, for instance, the interests listed include BDSM, dominance and submission, master/slave, master/servant, and so on.) I'm not implying anything about what other kinds of fic people like. -- Liviapenn 01:19, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
- Coming late into this discussion: Could this be a disagreement based on the participants being in different parts of fandom, and therefore reading different slavefic?
- I've been deeply involved in the multifandom slavefic community since 2002, and my impression is the same as Lanta's: that realistic slavefics are common throughout fandom. I think, in general, that *all* topics in fandom are written about in an unrealistic manner more often than they're written about in a realistic manner, but it doesn't appear to me that the percentage of unrealistic slavefic stories is any higher than the percentage of unrealistic fanfic in general.
- On the other hand, it's possible that, in particular fandoms, unrealistic slavefics are more common. If that's so, then perhaps a discussion of particular fandoms within slavefic would be a good idea.
- By the way, the premise underlying this discussion seems to be that romance and kink never occurred during several thousand years' worth of master/slave relationships. Do we have any evidence for that premise? --duskpeterson
prescriptive or descriptive?
I'm not sure about the sentence "If there is consensual sexual domination and submission in a story with no true slavery, then it should be described as D/s or BDSM, not as slavefic." I can agree with the sentiment, i.e. that it is clearer to make the distinction, but common labelling in fandom just doesn't follow this platonic ideal of genre borders. It is my impression that currently stories with consensual sexual slavery as play or lifestyle frequently are tagged/recced/labelled as slavefic and I'm not sure that this wiki is the place to say all the people doing this are wrong.--Ratcreature 02:45, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
- I take your point there. There are plenty of people who agree with me about the boundary between slavefic and BDSM, but enough people disagree that I probably shouldn't call it an absolute. Therefore, I've altered the text somewhat: tell me if you think it's okay? I liked your change in paragraph one by the way; I was thinking that since we disagreed, that disagreement ought to be entered into the text. -- Lanta 03:04, 3 November 2008 (UTC)