This is only tangentially about Grey Day, and mostly just random mental wanderings about fannish interactions and disagreements.
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| Title: | This is only tangentially about Grey Day, and mostly just random mental wanderings about fannish interactions and disagreements. (The essay is untitled. This is the title used here on Fanlore. It is the first sentence of the essay.) |
| Creator: | elynross |
| Date(s): | May 6, 2003 |
| Medium: | LiveJournal post |
| Fandom: | |
| Topic: | |
| External Links: | This is only tangentially about Grey Day, and mostly just random mental wanderings about fannish interactions and disagreements., Archived version |
| Click here for related articles on Fanlore. | |
This is only tangentially about Grey Day, and mostly just random mental wanderings about fannish interactions and disagreements. is a 2003 essay by elynross.
Some Topics Discussed
- Grey Day, the voluntary "greying" out of fan sites to protest intra-fannish plagiarism, particularly of vids
- LiveJournal and how it effects fandom
- fannish interactions and disagreements
- fannish expectations of community and behavior
- vidding and its perceived lack of respect
Excerpts
One of the things I love about LJ is that it fulfills that need I used to have for stringers in various fandoms to keep me up-to-date on fannish gossip and confrontations. One of the things I hate about LJ is that now there are so many more places to get outraged, and I'm exposed to so many more people who are. *g* The Internet, in general, broke fandom wide open and led to a lot of sighing for "the good old days" (where, at the very least, you were more isolated from the breadth of fandom, so it could appear a more mature and reasonable place). It also led to the appearance, at least, of a much greater range and number of people that one finds...unreasonable, not to say psycho. It's arguable that the actual proportion hasn't changed, but we're exposed to more of them. It's also arguable that any given, well-seasoned fan has developed an increasing sensitivity to particular strains of fans and fannish arguments, and a lower tolerance for same.
Occasionally I read opinions that really make my brain hurt, because they are so far from my own that my brain doesn't even bend that way. Usually they aren't diametrically opposed, because I find that opinions of that sort are usually understandable, whether I agree, or not. With the genuine brain-benders, I find that if I try and pick them apart, there's some major difference in terms and the use thereof, or an entirely different value structure, such that the entire foundation of the opinion is different. They're not just in the same neighborhood, they're on an entirely different planet, and possibly a different dimension, where 2+2=platypus. There's something remarkably freeing in realizing this, in knowing that the reason you can't come to some accomodation is that you're not just speaking different languages, you have entirely different concepts of what it means to communicate.
Well, and also, a lot of times, arguments are deeply, deeply flawed as far as logic and coherence is concerned, with a tendency to try and distract you with fairy gold.
The latest brainhurt is the whole range of discussion about Grey Day, the voluntary "greying" out of fan sites to protest intra-fannish plagiarism, particularly of vids. I've seen calm and reasoned discussion on both sides, and I've seen vociferous and heated ranting on both sides. I guess it never occurred to me that it would be as big an issue as it is, so the level of reaction surprises me. I mean, if I'd been asked? I would have said that it's the kind of thing you choose to do, for whatever reason, or you choose not to, for whatever reason. I wouldn't have presumed to assume I knew what someone's reasons were on either side. I certainly wouldn't have expected so many people to oppose it on the grounds of "it won't change anything," because since when did enjoined protest depend on the expectation of effecting immediate and concrete change? I mean, sure, it's nice, but I guess I've always viewed protest as a way of stating my opinion, publically, so people know where I stand -- whatever my reasons for doing so.
People on both sides (and why is it that so many people feel the need to reduce things to only two sides? My life, it's a dodecahedron, at the very least, with so many sides they're hard to count. You add more people in the mix...) have valid questions and valid points, and a great many people seem simply uncertain about what they think, and how they feel. It's all tied in with a lot of different issues, about how we view our own hobby (do we take it seriously, or is it just a hobby? And why can't I do both?), whether we view fandom as any kind of community (and I do, since being a community, to me, has no necessary connotation of mutual friendliness and getting alongness), what lines, if any, we draw between fans and pros, how we view writing and vidding and creativity in general. What's both amusing and alarming is that the final straw in this whole thing was something that was, ultimately, handled very reasonably and taken as an opportunity to educate and assist, something that a lot of people talk about in fandom, and I was glad to see happen. However, by then it had taken on a life of its own, for good or ill.
Do I think Grey Day will "accomplish" anything? Possibly not, although it's led to a lot of interesting discussion and self-reflection, which I think is always good. Is it intended to accomplish anything in particular, though, beyond an awareness of an issue that is meaningful and important to some people? I don't know. I think it's valid to say that those who plagiarize, in whatever form, probably won't be impacted, because in general, those people who do it knowingly really don't intend to be caught. But then, again, I think the general level of raised awareness is, in itself, a good thing. People may come out of this, on all sides, with their own opinions better defined, and I'm always in favor of greater coherence and consistency of opinion.
I find the tossing about of the word "theft" to be very interesting, both as used to describe the appropriation and reworking of source material, whether textually or visually, and as used to describe the reuse of another fan's words/edits in one's own creative work. I was somewhat appalled when I saw the occasional and casual dismissal of vidding as something somehow less creative, less original, than another artform, simply because it's the reworking of original footage -- it was one of those brainhurt moments, as well as a moment when I realized how immersed in the vidding culture I am, even as a non-vidder, and how little people who dismiss vidding that way seem to know not just of fannish vidding, but of entire aspects of artistic creation involving montages and collages and pop art.
Technically, perhaps legally, maybe what we do is "theft," in that we appropriate without permission. However, there's a connotation of secrecy, of not wanting to be discovered, to "theft" that doesn't fit well for me in the appropriation of pop culture. Most of us try not to force notice on TPTB, and I'm sure some of them (particularly the bean counters) would just as soon we weren't around, but I like to think that most of the creative types see it as a tribute, and as something that enhances, rather than detracts from, their source. Legal issues of copyright and trademarks and such are a different question, and not one I care to get into. Are we breaking laws? Possibly, but it's not really been tested.
When it comes to appropriating from other fans, for some it's clearcut (you don't do that to other fans!), while for others it ought to be the same thing: either it's okay, or it's not, regardless of who you're stealing from, so it shouldn't matter whether it's original source or a fan's reworking. For some, writing is different than vidding; taking someone's words and reusing them is worse, because those somehow "belong" more to the fan than the product of rearranging original source material (again, I point out that this latter opinion, to my mind, demonstrates a tremendous lacunae in understanding fannish vidding).
My wibbling point in all this is fannish reuse of another fan's original characters. In the first place, I have never been tempted to do so, although I was amused by Lex's fanon butler Joachim turning up in multiple stories by different authors. It was kind of a fun fannish in-joke, and as far as I know, was originally done with permission and good humor. Emotionally, I feel attachment to original characters I don't to canon characters, which are shared from the getgo. Rationally, I see the argument that perhaps the original creators of canon characters might feel the same way. I haven't quite pinned down why I think there is a distinction, though, beyond "you don't shit where you eat." It's easy enough, in the fannish arena, to ask permission of another author whether you can use their original characters. It's not really practically possible to do so of canon creators, in part because of the aforementioned shoving of our appropriating into their faces in unignorable ways. Some canon producers wink and nod, others speak out against it, and the "traditional" fannish stance has been that we are a tribe apart. We might interact with the producers of our canon, but your neighborhood is others fans.
The Internet, and now LJ, has blurred a lot of these lines even more. Fans have become pro producers, blurring those lines still further, fannish writers are also pro writers, and they have varied reactions to having their own stuff turned into fannish fodder. The thing is, people tend to address the idea that it's all the same, and either it's all permissible or none of it is, from a rational place (for a certain value of rational), while the "but they're mine tends to come from a more emotional place, as I see it. And however far we've come, we still tend to think we should privilege the rational over the emotional.
The thing is, I've never been a big fan of the slippery slope argument, the idea that once you take this step, there's no place to stop, and you just tumble on down the hill. I think there are lines, and I think they're often fairly clear and effective. The problem isn't the lines, as such, it's which side of them you stand on, and whether you think of them as lines where walls are built, or barriers that are permeable. I don't find anything intrinsically inconsistent in saying that I have no issues with fannish appropriation of pop culture, while I do have issues with fannish appropriation of another fans creation, whether in the form of someone else's original characters, or their vid edits, or whatever. I wonder sometimes if the line is a little different when it comes to literary purloining, because this is usually traceable to a single person, although I can't entirely tell you why that makes a difference to me, if it does. *g*
Some people have said that the "you just don't behave this way towards other fans" argument doesn't work for them (often much more colorfully), and I suppose there are some problems with it -- but for me, only if you assume that showing respect for other fans by not "stealing" from them means that you aren't showing any respect for the original creators when you "steal" from them. I think we show respect differently, and it varies depending on our relation to the producer of whatever it is we're appropriating. It's the blurring of those lines of fan and producer that causes a lot of the conflict I see. My appropriation of HL or SV or HP isn't intended as a lack of respect for the producers, but more an acknowledgment that, law aside, their creations have passed into a public, shared arena, and my response to them is to interact with the creations fannishly. My way of showing respect to fannish creators, who are in my neighborhood, is to ask before appropriating their ideas and creations -- and respecting their decisions if they refuse, whether I agree with their reasons, which I may not even know. My writing of HP doesn't mean, to me, that I have less respect for JK Rowling than I do for a fellow fan; it simply means that I relate to her, and her creation, in a different way.
What really twists my brain about all of these kind of fannish confrontations, though, is the way in which some people seem unable, incapable, and/or unwilling of discussing and expressing their opinions in a civil and respectful manner. I've never understood the idea that if you're pissing someone off you must be doing something right. I have little respect for someone who can't be bothered to express their disagreements in a genuinely mature, sincere, respectful, direct, and honest way. I tend to think that most things can be done in a polite and well-mannered way, but emotions get stirred up, and it's very hard not to respond in like manner, not to get angry when you're maligned or treated like an idiot, or when someone seems to almost willfully distort and misunderstand.
Ultimately, and in conclusion, , I want to be a kinder person. I want to be more generous, more centered, more able to look upon things I disagree with and people I find provoking and simply nod and move on, not get caught up in the emotional undertow that seems to be everywhere these days, not the one of "too seriously," but the one of "what a moron" and "this doesn't make sense to me, therefore it's stupid," and my personal favorite, "I don't like this, therefore it's wrong/stupid/bad/shouldn't be." I want to know the point I step from genuine venting about something to gossip, malice, and grandstanding for the audience.
I mean, there's a reason I don't generally do public critique, or name names, or do my pointing and laughing in public: I'm too prone to playing to the audience, to be clever at someone else's expense, to forgetting that there are consequences. I know that some feel that keeping such things private is hypocrisy, that it's somehow braver and better and more admirable to at least have the guts to say these things publically, and to those I say... You have a different definition of courage than I do, a different definition of hypocrisy, and an ability to see into the hearts of others that I wish I shared. I think it's entirely possible to privately roll your eyes and rant about something someone says and be neither a coward, nor a hypocrite.
Fan Comments
[ratcreature]: We might interact with the producers of our canon, but your neighborhood is others fans.
I see where you're coming from, however if I go with my "gut feeling" I can't really see the difference. I think that might be because my entry into fandom was comic fandom, and sure there are publishers and companies and professionals in comics, but I was first a fan of European and Alternative comics, and there basically a lot of the creators are just like fans. Many even when they publish "professionally" can't live from their comics, there are publishers who don't make any significant profits, and the line between fanzines, self-publishing, and professional publishing is really blurred. And even with comic artists working for companies like mainstream US publishers, almost everybody is also a comic fan. I mean, most people who want to draw comics (and to a maybe lesser degree also people who write comics), want to do that because they were comic fans first, with maybe some who come from a more graphical artist direction. And it's not just the artists, a fair number of comic shop owners, of editors and publishers are also comic fans. So for me the argument that the canon producers are somehow different doesn't work on the emotional level. How exactly is a comic author who self-publishes her book, and who has an email address published in her comic, different (in the "distance sense") from a fan artist? I still didn't write her whether I could use a scan of her art work on my comic recs page. I simply assumed, hey I guess she'll be okay to be have her comic book recced. For me, both emotionally and rationally, fan works are "fair game" on the same terms as professional works are, where basically I look at it on a "case-by-case" basis. I think only some things always apply, like, I think credit should be given if parts are re-used or derivative work is based on it, and nobody should plagiarize another persons work, but whether I feel okay with using other people's work for something depends on a lot of other factors, that can't be neatly divided into "professional stuff, so it's okay to use" "fan art, so it's not". Obviously for example I think about whether whatever I do will cost the original creators money. I know that in many parts of media fandom the view and community standard is different, and I'll act accordingly, because a) I have no interest in any kind of hassle or kerfuffle and b) so far I haven't been in a position where I wanted to use parts of a fan artwork anyway, but basically I think basically I think "professional" and "fan" works should be treated in the same way.