Talk:Tinhat
origin of tinhat name
Hah! I found [1]where the name was invented], By Versaphile on Journalfen. That's kinda cool. And she had no space in the name, so I'm copying over the stuff currently at Tin_hat and will redirect that one to here. -- Msilverstar 05:46, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
I think I managed to give this a reasonably reality-based explanation. I'm curious if anyone disagrees on matters of tone, events, or quotes. -- Msilverstar 21:07, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
Formatting and Domlijah
While I think the long Domlijah theories section is important, I don't know if it really belongs on this specific page? Especially since I went to the Domlijah page and there's practically nothing there. Wouldn't it make more sense to have the theories on the ship page, and then have a shorter section here that mentions specifically origins of "tinhatters" being used for Domlijah shippers? As it is now, the flow of the page is kind of awkward. --Punkpixieprince (talk) 22:24, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
- yeah i moved that whole section to the Domlijah page under a tinhatting section because it's not really about tinhatting so much as it is about domlijah tinhatting and i think that's better served on that page, even though it's part of the history here. Flyingthesky (talk) 00:29, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
mcreedus and more formatting
so i literally just finished going through and sourcing everything that was already on the page that didn't have anything+expanding the page from just rpf to general fandom except for one thing? most of the other things i was able to find some example of the tinhatting happening, to an extent that was beyond just. regular shipping. however, for McReedus i found the opposite basically. this forum seems to indicate that "McReedus" shippers are mainly platonic and shipping the characters the actors play on the show and this post seems to indicate that shippers MIGHT exist? but most of the examples i can find are more firmly in the first category. this happens somewhat frequently in rpf fandoms, but "McReedus" almost seems like it's a synonym for "Caryl." does anyone have sources showing otherwise or can we remove it?
the other thing is that i expanded the fourth wall section but honestly i don't think it belongs on this page at all since this is the glossary page? it's about a term and helping understand how it came into use, how it's used. maybe we can spin that section off onto its own page? because i think there's honestly a lot that could be said about the relationship between tinhatting and the fourth wall but like. i can't do it on this page because it's just supposed to be here to provide a definition and examples basically. Flyingthesky (talk) 06:09, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
- Okay, I am going to add what little I know about McReedus, as part of the Caryl fandom. I don't disagree with the forum posts exactly, I think most fans do not think (tinhat) that Norman and Melissa are a couple in real life, but I don't think this applies to all the fans. I do remember some tumblr posts around the time that Norman got together with his current girlfriend, where people were disappointed and saying that him and Melissa belong together. Does this qualify as tinhatting? I don't know. Most fans of McReedus, I think, like sharing photos, gifs and manips, and writing RPF (there is a separate McReedus section on Nine Lives), but realize it's probably is not going to happen in real life, but I do think there is a very small subset that think it should happen or has happened, they are just not more vocal, perhaps because others in the fandom would shoot them down pretty quickly. -- Kingstoken (talk) 10:57, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
- tinhatting tends to be more about the fictional narrative created by the people shipping rather than just normal shipping stuff? it's more like "omg they were MADE to be together" or "everyone knows he's not REALLY dating [x] because he's with melissa." it's basically not just disappointment that a ship isn't canon but a DISBELIEF that a ship isn't canon to the point where you make theories to prove the ship is/was canon. a couple of examples on this page also have to do with the way the relationship is portrayed in the media, so if there's trashy tabloids mag articles about them ~totally~ being dating or whatever then that would also work. Flyingthesky (talk) 02:13, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
- I created Tinhats and the Fourth Wall. Feel free to edit what I've left of the subject on this page. – caes (talk) 19:30, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
- no that loooks good. thank you! Flyingthesky (talk) 02:13, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
FPF section examples question
Some of the examples in the FPF section don't look like tinhatting to me, just ship wars over whose ship will become canon. Overinterpreting subtext as intentional is also very common and not a sign of tinhatting in itself. I think there's a big difference between slash goggles affecting fannish osmosis--the case of Teen Wolf--and constructing an elaborate theory to explain why the producers must be lying when they say they won't make Sherlock and John a couple. I think for it to be tinhatting, there needs to be a theory that people behind the scenes are involved in a coverup. Ignoring authorial intent is a common approach in criticism and doesn't automatically make it tinhatting. Being bad at textual analysis also doesn't make one a tinhat. Do fans in these fandoms use the term tinhat to describe these shippers?--aethel (talk) 20:16, 2 January 2022 (UTC)
RPF Slash example - The Untamed
We (Policy & Admin) have restored the paragraph regarding actors Xiao Zhan and Wang Yibo (The Untamed), because it’s important not to remove sections of content without discussing it on the Talk page, as this can be considered hostile editing.
However, in reviewing the paragraph, it looks like sources would be useful, or a discussion here on how to improve PPOV represented. Joanna R (talk) 20:00, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
- I'm not in that fandom but I remember how Twitter and Facebook were in an uproar because of China's censorship of The Untamed and the fear that this hadt could do to the actors' wallets -- Ellakbhesse (talk) 20:24, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
- Ellakbhesse, it looks like you added back in some Categories I accidentally removed when I reverted the deletion - I didn’t mean to remove the categories, so thanks for catching that! Joanna R (talk) 22:26, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
- The categories were not removed in your edit Joanna R, they seem like they were just put together in a way that didn't work -- Ellakbhesse (talk) 22:38, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
- OK, I’m relieved! I wasn’t sure how I managed to delete those, so I’m relieved I didn’t. Thanks anyway for catching it, Ellakbhesse. Joanna R (talk) 22:48, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
- Hello, I don’t know exactly to where move the discussion then, because I don’t know where to put it (I am new here) but I deleted the paragraph earlier because it is just straight up misinformation. Wang Yibo and Xiao Zhan and indeed shipped authors, but neither did the „tinheads“ threaten actor Meng Ziyi how it is stated in the post, not are they are at fault for the actors not being able to appear in public with each other. Rather, reason for that is the 227 incident, which was started from the Solofandom of one of the actors due to a fic that was written on AO3, which resulted in one of the actors being cyberbullied and AO3 being disabled in Mainland China, NOT because of the Tinheads as stated in the paragraph. The 227 incident can be read about on Wikipedia “Boycott against Xiao Zhan incident”. The way the article is written here blames everything on the tinheads, which is just not true, and the incident is until this day a very sensitive issue, since it can and does still influence the actors careers until today and should be therefore handled with more care. The way it is written right now is just stating straight up misinformation. I can’t provide any further sources because of most of it being on Weibo (which I have no access to) and in general the topic is a very sensitive one because the splitter parts of the fandoms fight with each other until this day. This is neither an objective portrayal of the things that happened nor should they be here in this way in the first place because a careless portrayal like this has and can still seriously impacte the actors life’s and careers. I myself don’t see myself in the position to edit the part in an appropriate way, so therefore I ask for it to be deleted entirely or to be rewritten by someone with an objective PPOV. --Nyx 22:28:, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
- EDIT: i want to point out that the BULLYING was done by the own FANDOM of the actor who themselves STARTED the whole discourse because they couldn’t separate fiction from reality. One of the actors nearly lost his career over this. And while it has to do with them being shipped it was not because the shippers were aggressive with it. I also want to point out that the original account that wrote this paragraph seems to be a member of the said solofandom. Also, The Untamed was and always was censored since there is no portrayal of LGBTQ+ content in Chinese Media. It was What made both actor‘s career explode and brought them to international success. But again international success and exposure was not the reason why WYB and XZ had to distance themselves in public. i am also going to mute this because I can feel this seriously influencing my mental health because it stresses me how somebody can just state things without proofs and pulling down other people AND endangering the actors again. There is a reason why this is not expressively talked about.--Nyx 22:28:, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
- Nyx This is the second time a new user account enters Fanlore to remove this section in question without any previous discussion, which violates the site's editing rules. I don't believe the edit by Zhancafe, be something done based on false allegations since everyone knows there was a whistleblower war that led to the banning of AO3 and consequences for the actors' careers. However, it is not removing the snippet without previous discussion that will help the correction of the same. And I don't think a simple Fanlore article is going to hurt the careers or lives of these actors in question. I believe that you are taking very seriously a question as basic as editing a text. -- Ellakbhesse (talk) 21:26, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
- Ellakbhesse the reason why I believe it can influence the careers is not because the are gonna read it (god bless) but because it it’s people like me who are new to the fandom that use it to get their opinion based on a false statement. And then go onto twitter and spread this as said and this than create problems. I was not aware of the policy of fanlore for that I apologise but I did it because, as I also marked it when removing, that it is due to spreading misinformation. So I didn’t see how deleting smth that is wrong and has no reference to back it up could need any further clarification. Again for that I apologise. The banning of AO3 was a result of the Chinese government having to break down a controversy made over a very graphic fic between the actors by the ons of the solofandoms. It had nothing to do with shippers in the first place. This is also described in the reference I provided. Again. I apologise for not respecting the policy of this side. Nyx (talk) 21:55, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
- Nyx no need to apologize, the point is that even if you reported it was incorrect, removing is not the best step. As far as I know the recommendation is to open a discussion, or edit and report on the talk page related. Yes new fans who are unaware of the whole imbroglio can be wrong with the section, but it's better to edit it, because whether or not there was a dissemination on the part of hadts of the information that they were or are a couple. the AO3 issue is already an old acquaintance to me I think the best thing is to edit and make the text wider and if you have references I would be happy to add it. Be well and don't get excited oor Don't take reversing your edit as a fight against you or favoritism the other edition. I've already had several of my collaborations reversed, it's something common when we wrongly edit a page. Take good care of your mental health, make your page here on Fanlore and keep editing, I love new fans on the site. I'm also new to everything here -- Ellakbhesse (talk) 22:22, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
- Ellakbhesse the best source I know is actually t he Wikipedia page I mentioned as a lot of original things were deleted or are hard to really get because it all happening in china but I can try to get source and give them to you. Over an edited version I would be very grateful, I don’t belong to either side really but nevertheless this stressed me out a lot. Thank you I don’t even know myself why it stresses me out so much, I guess because being in this fandom I know how very wrong things can go from things like such a post, which is totally stupid but I guess you can kind of call it a post-traumatic reaction. Tbh I totally understand the steps being taken and I am not stressed out about that :D Nyx (talk) 22:55, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
- The events Nyx is referring to are described on the Blocking of AO3 in China page. I agree the original addition sounds like it came from a solo fan. There are POV problems with the edit: first, I think several different incidents are being thrown together (people tinhatting them, people attacking the actress, the actors no longer appearing together, people speculating as to why) with little context for when they happened and who thought what. Further, describing tinhats' motives as malicious makes no sense; homophobic anti-fans could spread malicious rumors, but tinhats are fans and whatever beliefs or proofs they discuss are not likely to be "spread" by them with "malicious" intent (not to mention: did the tinhats spread the information where other people could see it, or did anti-fans try to spread what was discussed in private forums? how widespread was the idea that they were an item at all?). Without more information, it's hard to judge whether rumors about why the actors stopped interacting are reliable or not, but since the promotional period of The Untamed is over, I'm surprised that anyone reached for a nefarious reason for it rather than "they finished their work obligations and moved on to other projects". More context is needed, and maybe the whole explanation would fit better on the Wang Yibo/Xiao Zhan page than here.--aethel (talk) 21:34, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
early tinhat history?
Not sure where to put it, but I was listening to a podcast by 1D fans and one mentioned that tinhatting occurred on NSYNC mailing lists (a locked list for JC/Lance?), which I hadn't known. They also talk about domlijah. [2]--aethel (talk) 22:37, 28 November 2022 (UTC)