What? I'm confused! Doesn't multi-media usually mean "Hey, look, I made a half-fanfic, half-vid chimera!" like it does out in the wild? --Betty 23:48, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
- Not traditionally; it wasn't really possible to mix media formats until very recently, so what it meant was a mix of media sources. (It's the same use of "media" that gave us the term "media fandom" as "fandom that encompasses many media sources, not just one".) I've got a shelf full of multi-media zines at home. (see this list of multimedia zines for an example.) But now that you mention that, maybe we need a disambiguation page that explains the difference. --Arduinna 23:57, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
- Actually, I've been thinking about this, and I think we should reverse the redirect -- send Multifandom to Multimedia, and have a section on Multimedia for multifandom and one for multiformat, to make sure nothing gets left out. What do you think? --Arduinna 16:51, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
- I like that -- I think it will make better sense to both sides.--Sherrold 19:12, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
- Cool, I'll mark this for the wiki mods to see, so nothing gets lost. The existing Multimedia page probably needs to be deleted before this can be moved, anyway. --Arduinna 19:40, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
- Actually, just give me a moment to swap the data, and then you can fix it up. I don't think the page has to be deleted. --rache 19:45, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
- Done. You can add the multiformat headers to the page now.--rache 19:46, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
- Thanks! --Arduinna 19:54, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
- Betty, I spit out Pepsi with that description. That is awesome. --Seperis 19:52, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
After the discussion over on the multimedia page, we seem to have come to a consensus that it is "multimedia" which needs disambiguation, as it's the word with multiple meanings -- both "multifandom" and "multiple forms of media used together in a piece." We're waiting on a gardener to organize this and create the disambiguation page, mostly because I don't know how to do that myself. Whew! --Sabine 07:44, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
- Actually, it looks like the consensus that was building on the other talk page was for "multimedia" to be disambiguated into two pages: "Multimedia (Art Form)" and "Multimedia or Multifandom" (with "multifandom" redirecting to the latter, rather than being the standalone term). I realize that "Multimedia or Multifandom" is a bit unwieldy, but I think it's probably the best compromise; people writing about multifandom can still simply link to "multifandom" as they type, no problem, but a page with a combined name makes it crystal clear that neither term is being privileged over the other in any way, which I think is the way to go. Do you still have arguments against that? --Arduinna 08:48, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
Page recreated, content moved from Multimedia
This page now contains the content about fan activities involving multiple fandoms formerly appearing on the Multimedia page, which is now a disambiguation page. Before renaming this page, please see the discussion at Talk:Multimedia.--Penknife 09:56, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
- I still have a problem with this, and maybe I'm the only one, but equating these terms here does not do the anything to clarify "multimedia challenge" where the challenge is multimedia, video, fic, music vs. "multimedia challenge" in the older sense meaning multifandom. I'm happy to include a fannish definition for "multimedia" but bringing it in as a straight synonym for "multifandom" then underprivelges -- and in fact confuses -- things like "multimedia archive" and "multimedia project" which are both used while meaning BOTH multifandom and multimedia. It therefore forbids us to use "multimedia archive" to mean an archive of vids and audio and stories. I made a poll, tried to make the language for the poll as unflammatory as I can, and am watching the results: http://iamsab.livejournal.com/420363.html -- obviously this is a selective sample, but is it any more selective than those of us here talking about it? --Sabine 22:08, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
- Maybe the answer is to change "Multimedia (Art Form)" to "Multimedia (Formats)", then? That would encompass both things like archives/challenges and individual fanworks, which seems to be the sticking point for you here. It's pretty well established at this point that in the sense of "includes many fandoms", "multimedia" and "multifandom" are in fact straight synonyms, used by different segments of fandom, so it doesn't make sense to me to suggest that they aren't. --Arduinna 22:31, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
- I'm not sure I see how it forbids anyone to use "multimedia archive" to mean an archive or challenge including vids and audio and stories. That's what I'd call it, and if I were doing it on the wiki, I would write "multimedia archive" or "multimedia challenge." If it's the "Art Form" part that makes it feel less inclusive of challenges and archives, I'm cool with changing that to "Format" or whatever works better for people.
- Personally, I prefer using "multimedia" to mean multiple media, not multifandom. I have never used anything but "multifandom" to mean multifandom, and I would happily argue in favor of that usage if that were the question. However, in this case, I think the question is not to resolve which term makes more sense or is more useful, but to describe how both terms are used by different groups of fans.
- All of which is a long-winded way of saying I think glossary articles should define descriptively, not prescriptively -- and I think a survey of LiveJournal fans is going to tell you that the vast majority of fans on LJ use "multifandom" for this concept, but didn't we know that already?--Penknife 22:37, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
- Yeah, a poll on LJ definitely only provides info about LJ users, but it's also not really about polling, I mean, we can go to the places where zine fans hang out and poll over there? Anyway, in the comments to the poll I said:
- I was behind the idea of having an "among zine fans, multimedia was the term used, and still is by some today" as part of the text on the "multifandom" entry, but what's happening there now is a page called "multifandom and multimedia" suggesting that they're interchangeable, which to MANY PEOPLE they are not. We still need the word "multimedia" to refer to things like vids, with music and clips, etc etc, so we are not prepared to ALSO use that term to mean "multifandom" -- it is WAY more confusing. The term "multimedia" and its meaning here should absolutely be described in a historical and etymological way, but isolating it out as a synonym for multifandom makes it harder for the rest of us to say things like, "a multimedia vid uses slides, video, computer animation and a Shins song" if that's also supposed to refer to a vid that includes Highlander, SG1, and Gilmore girls. Anyway, since it seems to be the fans who came up through zines support "multimedia," and those of us who came on through the internet, like me, learned the term for "multiple fandom" as "multifandom," Particularly because we already have the world "multimedia" meaning a different thing?
- I'm sorry, I seem to be getting emotional about this too. But in my opinion there's certainly a way to solve it, and I'm frustrated that this has gone on so long and been so hard on all of us.
- Coming in late, but I think if anything, we'd want to give more emphasis to the less-well-known fannish term. Like, for those people who see "multimedia" on old songtapes or zines and can't imagine what it means, since it's not the emerging "text + art + music + visuals" definition. I'm a huge fan of multimedia (in the other, emergent, sense) art, but there, the importance is talking about the WORKS, not about "multimedia" as a concept/definition/word: we all know what that means, its not particularly a fannish use, the way "multimedia" in the sense of "multifannnish" IS a fannish use. If that makes sense. Oy.--Speranza 17:57, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
After much discussion among gardeners, it has been decided to make Multifandom, Multimedia (Multiple Fandoms), and Multimedia (Multiple Media) three separate articles. Multimedia will remain a disambiguation page. This was the best consensus we could come to, and while it may not reflect everyone's first choice, we felt it was the best resolution to the controversy over definitions.
You'll notice some duplication between the Multifandom and Multimedia (Multiple Fandoms) articles, as I've copied a lot of the text of the previous "Multimedia or Multifandom" article into both. They can now be developed independent of each other, although they should continue to link to each other. --Penknife 00:38, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
- I'm very comfortable with how this worked out and I'm glad we were able to find a compromise. Thanks, Penknife! --Sabine 04:37, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
Multifandom Fandom Category
Can we have a multifandom fandom category for fanworks, archives, mailing lists, challenges, etc.? Right now everything (except zines) that isn't single fandom or a crossover doesn't have a fandom cat. :/ --Doro 19:44, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
- It makes sense for archives and challenges (if there are enough), which contain/produce fanworks in multiple fandoms. But I don't think it's worth labelling discussion forums that are not fandom-specific as "multifandom." Something like virgule, fanficrants, or the vidding lj comm aren't really about all the fandoms that get mentioned there; they're about acafannishness, bad fanfiction, or vidding. Likewise, the resource zines about making zines or Fandom on the Internet are about Fandom or a Fan Activity and shouldn't be categorized in Multimedia Zines.--æþel 23:56, 12 January 2011 (UTC)